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Thread: Tour de France

  1. #196
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    It's absolutely inconceivable that everyone in Armstrong's team took drugs but Lance decided not to.

    Looks like a duck to me.
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  2. #197
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Yeah, I mean it's possible (at least theoretically) he didn't take drugs, just very, very unlikely.

    If anyone really believes he's innocent I've got this tower in Paris I'm currently accepting offers on.
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  3. #198
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
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    I find it very, very hard to buy the idea that he's innocent. My take on it is that everything thus far has been fighting against the process, and not the evidence, and now that it will come down to the stage where actual facts will be revealed, he's better off without the laundry being aired in public.

    Lance Armstrong drops this fight « 3 Wire Sports

    Stripping him of the 1999-2005 titles, however, is not the solution. It's been commented on already, but what do you do with them? Leave a blank in the history books? Award them to Ullrich/Zulle/Beloki, all of whom have been implicated in/convicted of/admitted to doping? There was institutional drug use amongst the whole peloton, as Miller's book and Vaughters' interview this week clearly indicate, and if you look back into the earlier years of the tour, every other Maillot Jaune has a positive test somewhere or other in their history. Keep the history books as they are - and keep the sport ever cleaner now the omerta has been broken.

    I'm heading to France tomorrow for a week... it will be interesting to see how this is all handled in L'Equipe...
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  4. #199
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    It's absolutely inconceivable that everyone in Armstrong's team took drugs but Lance decided not to.

    Looks like a duck to me.
    It may well be but fact is that he didnt get caught and has been banned for life

    Gatlin got caught - penalty 4 years

    Carl Lewis was caught 3 times - penatly zero

    Eddie Merckx was caught 3 times - penalty zero

    Persecution much?
    Last edited by social; 24-08-2012 at 10:30 AM.


  5. #200
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social View Post
    It may well be but fact is that he didnt get caught and has been banned for life

    Gatlin got caught - penalty 4 years

    Carl Lewis was caught 3 times - penatly zero

    Eddie Merckx was caught 3 times - penalty zero

    Persecution much?
    Are you arguing that their penalties are too light or Armstrongs is too hard?

  6. #201
    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    In terms of balance of probabilities I reckon he's guilty. However, that's not evidence.
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  7. #202
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Are you arguing that their penalties are too light or Armstrongs is too hard?
    Both

  8. #203
    Request Your Custom Title Now! benchmark00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social View Post
    Both
    Well without going into each individual case because I only really am up to speed on the Lewis issue, he was found to have a very small amount of steroids in his body, so little that it was passed that it was not performance enhancing.

    I'm not sure what else you want to happen here? They obviously have a case against Armstrong, where evidence that has not been released will be released during the course of the 'trial' but Armstrong is refusing to contest the allegations.

    I'm all for innocent until proven guilty, but what would happen if a suspected murderer just says 'nah ****, don't want to respond to the allegations'. We let him off too?

  9. #204
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Well without going into each individual case because I only really am up to speed on the Lewis issue, he was found to have a very small amount of steroids in his body, so little that it was passed that it was not performance enhancing.

    I'm not sure what else you want to happen here? They obviously have a case against Armstrong, where evidence that has not been released will be released during the course of the 'trial' but Armstrong is refusing to contest the allegations.

    I'm all for innocent until proven guilty, but what would happen if a suspected murderer just says 'nah ****, don't want to respond to the allegations'. We let him off too?
    He's been "tried" several hundred times in the form of testing and passed every one and a 2 year federal investigation came up with nothing

    The USADA have questions about 2 samples taken in 2009/2010 (i.e. well after he won the last of his TDFs) and bought testimony from some questionable sources.

    Based on that "evidence", they claim that he has been doping since the age of 15!

    What's more, at the arbitration hearing that he was supposed to attend he wasnt going to be allowed to question witnesses or the accuracy of their conclusions re the questionable samples

    Seriously, if that is not being rail-roaded then I dont know what is and I'm not surprised that he has told them to get ****ed

    As for Lewis, he tested positive 3 times for banned stimulants and was let off on a warning on each occasion by US authorities so as to allow him to compete at the Olympics

    If the same results had been recorded at the Olympics, he would have been banned and his career finished

  10. #205
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    I'm all for innocent until proven guilty, but what would happen if a suspected murderer just says 'nah ****, don't want to respond to the allegations'. We let him off too?
    do they have double jeopardy on ubunt00
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  11. #206
    International Vice-Captain Redbacks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Pickup View Post
    Stripping him of the 1999-2005 titles, however, is not the solution. It's been commented on already, but what do you do with them? Leave a blank in the history books? Award them to Ullrich/Zulle/Beloki, all of whom have been implicated in/convicted of/admitted to doping?
    The public perception will then be the titles will just go to the fastest cheat who hasn't been caught.

    It's seems the tour is too grueling for cyclists making them use drugs/doping to perform for the lenght of the event. The governing body should consider more rest days or shorten it I think.

  12. #207
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    check out greg baum stealing my work: Fallen star quits the ride of his life

    cycingnews has put up a neato index if you want to be overwhelmed by links: Index Of Lance Armstrong Doping Allegations Over The Years | Cyclingnews.com

    under L'Equipe allegations:

    French anti-doping authorities had retroactively applied the new EPO test to samples from the 1999 Tour de France in order to test the robustness of their new test. The samples, which had been taken before the EPO test had been developed, allegedly showed evidence of EPO use but the lab personnel had no knowledge of the identities of riders behind positive samples.

    A journalist from L'Equipe managed to acquire documentation from the UCI with sample numbers and match positives to those of Armstrong. However, the UCI's independent analyst ruled the data was unreliable and could not be used for doping punishment because the samples were tested strictly for research purposes. The World Anti-Doping Agency objected, sparking a long, heated battle between WADA president Dick Pound and then-UCI president Hein Verbruggen.
    oh yeah and around 2002 armstrong gave the UCI 25K to help fight doping btw
    Last edited by Spikey; 24-08-2012 at 09:08 PM.
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  13. #208
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    The trouble with the above is that none of these allegations have ever been proven and still havent been as no-one, other than the USADA knows what the new evidence is.

    The recent hearing in the US are proof of this as the judge in that case agreed with Armstrong's argument that he was not provided with an adequate charging document by concluding that "The Court noted during the August 10 hearing, this "charging document" is so vague and unhelpful it would not pass muster in any court in the United States" and no further evidence was presented at the hearing.

    In spite of the above, the US anti-doping official who has led the investigation, had the gall to say that he had expected Armstrong to withdraw. “It was our expectation from the beginning. He knows all the evidence as well and he knows the truth, and so the smarter move on his part is to attempt to hide behind baseless accusations of process.:

    How the **** can he have known what the evidence was if they have never released it?

    No wonder the Judge also felt compelled to say that "it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that USADA is motivated more by politics and a desire for media attention than faithful adherence to its obligations to USOC."

    Anyway, like most I suspect that Armstrong probably did do something illegal but until such time as it is proven then .......

  14. #209
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    here's a nice big read about armstrong (allegedly) using epo in 99 and some other stuff: Michael Ashenden | NY Velocity - New York bike racing culture, news and events

  15. #210
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Hamilton's book just about to come out, a "game ender".

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