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  • Watson better batsman, Symonds better AR

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  • Watson better batsman, Watson better AR

    7 43.75%
  • Symonds better batsman, Watson better AR

    5 31.25%
  • Symonds better batsman, Symonds better AR

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  • Can't Split as batsmen, Watson better AR

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Thread: Shane Watson vs Andrew Symonds (ODIs)

  1. #31
    International Coach TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Averaging 50+ away from home in ODIs is pretty incredible. I have a theory. Alcohol was less readily-available or easy to access for him when touring. Maybe be averaged so low at home because he was drunk/hung over half the time, but when touring he had to focus on the cricket more.

    I know he famously got drunk before a match in Britain but maybe that's just an exception





    (and yes I'm mostly joking, obviously. But it makes just as much sense as the bigger boundaries theory)
    Last edited by TheJediBrah; 09-08-2019 at 10:36 PM.

  2. #32
    International Coach mr_mister's Avatar
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    Him playing a lot of home games from 99-03 batting 6-7 with a license to smash it is my theory and I think it's concrete

    A lot of useful cameos around that time, a lot of run a ball 30s and 40s but nothing to really boost the average
    Last edited by mr_mister; 10-08-2019 at 01:06 AM.
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  3. #33
    International Coach ankitj's Avatar
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    Has CW arrived at consensus on what batting on lower order does to batting averages? Does it hurt like in case of Yuvraj or Symonds as being said here? Or does it inflate like in case of Dhoni or Bevan? I have seen both kind of arguments being made and that too as if the logic is self evident.
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  4. #34
    International Coach mr_mister's Avatar
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    Symonds seemed to bash to the final ball and didn't have many not outs to show for it(talking about the early days of his ODI career)

    With Bevan he was more about wicket preservation, I think even in the final overs he'd aim for 1s and 2s every ball over boundaries

    Bevans RPI objectively suffered but with averages it can depend on your individual approach


  5. #35
    International Coach TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ankitj View Post
    Has CW arrived at consensus on what batting on lower order does to batting averages? Does it hurt like in case of Yuvraj or Symonds as being said here? Or does it inflate like in case of Dhoni or Bevan? I have seen both kind of arguments being made and that too as if the logic is self evident.
    It hurts more than it helps. But it depends on the type of player. Bevan wasn't a slogger, he was a nurdler and placer of the ball so it didn't really hurt him. Dhoni is a bit similar in that, especially later in his career, he chose not to score as fast as he could and it helped protect his average.

    For your Symonds type that is going to be looking for big hits, you're average is certainly going to suffer from coming in late in the innings a lot.

    Symonds didn't actually do that much after 2003 though. He was mostly at no. 5 for that part of his career, often batting ahead of the likes of Clarke and Hussey.

  6. #36
    International Debutant srbhkshk's Avatar
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    IMO Watson was both a better batsman as well as bowler. Symonds the better fielder though.

  7. #37
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    I would rate both as similar in batting with Watson being the better bowler. Symonds clearly the better fielder though. Whom would I pick in an ATG team ? Probably Symonds as there would be quite a few merely decent fielders in many ATG sides.

  8. #38
    International Coach stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_mister View Post
    Him playing a lot of home games from 99-03 batting 6-7 with a license to smash it is my theory and I think it's concrete

    A lot of useful cameos around that time, a lot of run a ball 30s and 40s but nothing to really boost the average
    Symonds' average in home games after his breakout 143* was only around 32 so it wasn't far from his historical average to that point.

    I think for him it's a combination of shorter innings and larger boundaries at home. Shorter innings because the batsmen ahead of him were better at home and therefore occupied more balls.

  9. #39
    International Coach stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_mister View Post
    Symonds seemed to bash to the final ball and didn't have many not outs to show for it(talking about the early days of his ODI career)

    With Bevan he was more about wicket preservation, I think even in the final overs he'd aim for 1s and 2s every ball over boundaries

    Bevans RPI objectively suffered but with averages it can depend on your individual approach
    Last time I looked Bevan had the highest rpi for a number 6 batsman. That could have been with a couple of minimum runs filters on though. His rpi was around 37 batting 6 IIRC, which is pretty incredible.

  10. #40
    International Coach stephen's Avatar
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    Here's the top run scorers batting #6.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...s;type=batting

    evan has an rpi of 35 in the position. Dhoni has an rpi of 32 batting 6.
    Last edited by stephen; 10-08-2019 at 07:53 AM.

  11. #41
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    If i had to pick one id take watson. Can bat anywhere, was good in every position and a quality bowler
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  12. #42
    International Coach TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Last time I looked Bevan had the highest rpi for a number 6 batsman. That could have been with a couple of minimum runs filters on though. His rpi was around 37 batting 6 IIRC, which is pretty incredible.
    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Here's the top run scorers batting #6.

    Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

    evan has an rpi of 35 in the position. Dhoni has an rpi of 32 batting 6.
    Rpi is crap. It's just a worse way of measuring average.

  13. #43
    International Coach stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJediBrah View Post
    Rpi is crap. It's just a worse way of measuring average.
    Agreed. But people often hold it against Bevan but the truth is that he was the best rpi for a number 6 by a significant margin as well as the best average. High rpi in the lower order is more valuable since runs down the order come in less favourable batting conditions - on a road the top order eat up the majority of the innings. It's only when the top order have been dismissed earlier that the lower order gets to shine.

  14. #44
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hill View Post
    So which batsmen cleared the rope more frequently and safely?
    Iíll the batsmen who average more at a quicker rate thanks. I know you have this massive hard on for Symonds to the extent that you quite ridiculously pick him as an all rounder for an all time eleven but truth is there are better options.
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  15. #45
    International Coach trundler's Avatar
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    Klusener averages a ridiculous 23 in Australia. SR of 74. Yuvraj averages 30 @ 90 in Australia in an easier era. Dhoni does average 48 but his strike rate is much lower @ 74. Stephen does have a point but Marc would rather settle for the snarky one liner.
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