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Best left-arm seamer since Akram retired

Who's the best since Wasim?

  • Vaas

    Votes: 11 28.9%

  • Zaheer

    Votes: 3 7.9%

  • Pathan

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Johnson

    Votes: 17 44.7%

  • Boult

    Votes: 4 10.5%

  • Wagner

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Starc

    Votes: 2 5.3%

  • Amir

    Votes: 1 2.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    38
srbhkshk

srbhkshk

International Captain
***** said:
Man, you make a comeback after 4 years out of the game, your teammates drop a whole bunch of catches on flat pitches, and suddenly people think you aren't all that.

I've never rooted for Amir to do well before but now I feel like it. He's legit a fantastic bowler and is being severely underrated based on statistics and incidents that have nothing to do with his actual ability to bowl a cricket ball.
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Dude he doesn't have even 100 test wickets as of now, and his average of 33 *includes* his early exploits and if Pakistan had taken 10 more catches of him he'd still be averaging nothing better than 30.

Yes he has pace and yes he can swing the ball, but his stamina is nowhere near good enough for tests, by the second session he typically delivers floaters at low 130s. Vaas is being overrated here, but Amir as of now is better than Vaas only for the first 6-7 overs of the day.
 
Burgey

Burgey

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Black_Warrior said:
Sorry do you mean Johnson?
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Lol what?

As any right minded and virtuous India-cricket hater would tell you (and we are legion) Zaheer’s spell in the 03 WC final was the highlight of that decade, and summed up his entire career bar two years: a vapid blow-hard with a ballerina-like leap in his delivery stride who launched the ball elegantly at the middle of the striker’s bat. He was a dead set dud for all but two years of his career and for that period aside wouldn’t have got a game for any other test side save Zimbabwe (for whom he would have bowled into the breeze behind Heath Streak).

He was awful. Then, just when he got good, he got injured, which was a shame because he became a smart bowler.

Johnson was crazily inconsistent, but he didn’t have one two year period of excellence alone. He went from woeful to world beating within a series, sometimes within a match.
 
Burgey

Burgey

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***** said:
I don't think his willingness to cheat is any way related to the quality of his bowling. They're two separate things.

This is the whole 'Can you separate the artist from his art' argument here, except we aren't even getting into the 'art' of Amir's bowling, but just the pure skill of it.
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They are related when he deliberately bowls badly.
 
srbhkshk

srbhkshk

International Captain
OverratedSanity said:
No he's not. People are saying he was very good. No one (well almost no one) thinks he was better than McGrath or anything.
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Thinking he was better than McGrath is not the only way to overrate someone. I don't think he is above Johnson/Starc/Boult at all.
 
cnerd123

cnerd123

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I feel I need to explain that a dropped catch isn't just a wicket lost, but a lost opportunity to take a crack a new batsman with momentum behind you. It is also a blow to a bowlers confidence and psyche which, when considering a solitary dropped catch, isn't all that huge, but when it gets to 14 (Before Amirs recent injury) it can take a pretty severe toll on you. You can't just handwave off the effect this can have on a bowlers confidence and form.

What's more, I feel I need to explain the difference between a bowler's skill and their career record. Kedar Jadhav has a better ODI bowling record than Nathan Lyon right now. Are we to take that as a fair representation of their respective skill levels? All the things mentioned above are reflected in his record, they don't accurately sum up the actual quality of his bowling, the actual skill he possess.

Given enough time I feel his record will right itself - he'll hit a purple patch where everything clicks, he'll have some luck go his way, he'll play in some friendly conditions - but even if it doesn't, it doesn't take away from how good he actually is. Just like how his test career overlapping with his purple patch doesn't suddenly make Voges a better batsman than he really was.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
***** said:
I feel I need to explain that a dropped catch isn't just a wicket lost, but a lost opportunity to take a crack a new batsman with momentum behind you. It is also a blow to a bowlers confidence and psyche which, when considering a solitary dropped catch, isn't all that huge, but when it gets to 14 (Before Amirs recent injury) it can take a pretty severe toll on you. You can't just handwave off the effect this can have on a bowlers confidence and form.

What's more, I feel I need to explain the difference between a bowler's skill and their career record. Kedar Jadhav has a better ODI bowling record than Nathan Lyon right now. Are we to take that as a fair representation of their respective skill levels? All the things mentioned above are reflected in his record, they don't accurately sum up the actual quality of his bowling, the actual skill he possess.

Given enough time I feel his record will right itself - he'll hit a purple patch where everything clicks, he'll have some luck go his way, he'll play in some friendly conditions - but even if it doesn't, it doesn't take away from how good he actually is. Just like how his test career overlapping with his purple patch doesn't suddenly make Voges a better batsman than he really was.
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ok
 
stephen

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Johnson. He was woeful at times but he also ran through sides on a regular basis.

Starc could better him though.
 
Burgey

Burgey

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The bloke is a proven spot fixer. He deliberately bowled a no ball. How is that anything other than deliberately not bowling his best?
 
cnerd123

cnerd123

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that no-ball was in between of a spell where he rekt England in England. They all were decent balls too, it's not like he was overstepping and bowling half trackers at 110 kmph or smth
 
SillyCowCorner1

SillyCowCorner1

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Ian Bradshaw was up there during that purple patch of his...

One of the few bowlers in ODIs to have an economy rate of under 6 in each of the games he played (62 matches).
 
Burgey

Burgey

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So deliberately bowling an illegal delivery for Arthur Ashe is now bowling at ones best. Glad we’ve got that straight.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

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The Hutt Rec said:
Shocked and appalled that James Franklin is 12th on the original list.
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Noticed that. Was actually a really good Test bowler for a year or two before his major injury in the mid-2000s was Franko.

Then became a batting-allrounder and dropped 10-15 kms of pace.
 
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