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The greatest batsman who averaged in the 40s

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Mark Waugh is a hard guy to judge. He's a 90s ODI great and he had good test tons against everyone, but was hugely inconsistent.
Mark Waugh wasn't inconsistent, I think it was more the fact that he didn't make a lot of 150+ scores, which impacts on the end average. He was every bit as good a batsman as anyone Australia has produced in the last few decades.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Because it's CW and we all love lists & stats. Eligible contenders based on a min. 2000 Test runs.

Highlighted my personal top 10, which is highly flawed because there's a lot of batsmen there who I don't know too much about. Italicised some honourable mentions/favs/criminally underrated.

DPMD Jayawardene
Inzamam-ul-Haq

FMM Worrell
V Sehwag
MJ Clarke
B Mitchell
TT Samaraweera
DA Warner
RN Harvey
Misbah-ul-Haq
KD Walters
GC Smith
WH Ponsford
SJ McCabe
ER Dexter
LRPL Taylor
G Boycott
VS Hazare
EH Hendren
AC Gilchrist
SM Nurse
RB Kanhai
AN Cook
KP Pietersen
AD Mathews
WM Lawry
RM Cowper
CA Pujara
RB Simpson
PBH May
CH Lloyd
AL Hassett
DM Jones
AR Morris
DR Martyn
DL Amiss
M Leyland
WM Woodfull
VVS Laxman
EJ Barlow
NCL O'Neill
Saeed Anwar
MD Crowe
G Kirsten
JL Langer
CC Hunte
V Kohli
M Azharuddin
SM Katich
Zaheer Abbas
MH Richardson
CG Greenidge
GP Thorpe
GM Turner

AI Kallicharran
RB Richardson
TW Graveney
Shoaib Mohammad
AH Jones
LD Chandimal
DI Gower
DJ Cullinan
IJL Trott
MC Cowdrey
Hanif Mohammad
ME Trescothick
Saleem Malik
RA Smith
DC Boon
LG Rowe
JH Edrich
MA Taylor
IR Redpath
Azhar Ali
BF Butcher
PA de Silva
HP Tillakaratne

CJL Rogers
Asad Shafiq
MJ Slater
C Washbrook
IR Bell
G Gambhir
GA Gooch
M Amarnath
RC Fredericks
IM Chappell
JB Stollmeyer
DL Haynes
PR Umrigar
CH Gayle
SC Ganguly
DB Vengsarkar
NS Sidhu
DJ McGlew
HH Gibbs
GR Viswanath
ME Waugh
CG Macartney
AG Prince
MP Vaughan
JC Adams
GN Yallop
KC Wessels
TM Dilshan
AJ Strauss
HW Taylor
M Vijay
LEG Ames
PD Collingwood
W Bardsley
AW Greig
Saeed Ahmed
MJ Prior
B Sutcliffe
ST Jayasuriya
SP Fleming
BL D'Oliveira
RR Sarwan
WJ Edrich
 
Last edited:

Victor Ian

International Coach
It's Mark Waugh.

He average is only barely above 40 and that is quite amazing. He was the better batsmen of the two brothers. Waugh was always curious to watch for me because he would be batting so effortlessly and looking so good doing it and yet he would manage to lose his wicket in all sorts of odd, until that moment, ways. But never when it mattered. He would go in and paint 20 all over the ground and then get out to an unlucky shot, that Steve wouldn't have played in the first place, and the Mark show would be over. But it didn't matter. Australia were in the box seat. When it did matter, Mark had the goods.

For players who average 40's you are not after dogged defensive players. If that is their style then they are not great, because the great players of that style average 50+. Accumulators can be called great in a 40 odd average for the same reason.

So we are looking for stylish players, who don't give a crap about records and being stubborn and selfish. They are the one's who average 40 odd, despite being great. They are prepared to perform for a briefer period because they don't give a crap. Their life is about more than just cricket. While they are out there, they are there only to bat, and bat as good as it can look and fun as it can be.

If it's now Waugh, then it is Gower. Gower was my first favourite player, before someone told me he was English and I was meant to Hate him.
 
Last edited:

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Because it's CW and we all love lists & stats. Eligible contenders based on a min. 2000 Test runs.

Highlighted my personal top 10, which is highly flawed because there's a lot of batsmen there who I don't know too much about. Italicised some honourable mentions/favs/criminally underrated.

DPMD Jayawardene
Inzamam-ul-Haq

FMM Worrell
V Sehwag
MJ Clarke
B Mitchell
TT Samaraweera
DA Warner
RN Harvey
Misbah-ul-Haq
KD Walters
GC Smith
WH Ponsford
SJ McCabe
ER Dexter
LRPL Taylor
G Boycott
VS Hazare
EH Hendren
AC Gilchrist
SM Nurse
RB Kanhai
AN Cook
KP Pietersen
AD Mathews
WM Lawry
RM Cowper
CA Pujara
RB Simpson
PBH May
CH Lloyd
AL Hassett
DM Jones
AR Morris
DR Martyn
DL Amiss
M Leyland
WM Woodfull
VVS Laxman
EJ Barlow
NCL O'Neill
Saeed Anwar
MD Crowe
G Kirsten
JL Langer
CC Hunte
V Kohli
M Azharuddin
SM Katich
Zaheer Abbas
MH Richardson
CG Greenidge
GP Thorpe
GM Turner

AI Kallicharran
RB Richardson
TW Graveney
Shoaib Mohammad
AH Jones
LD Chandimal
DI Gower
DJ Cullinan
IJL Trott
MC Cowdrey
Hanif Mohammad
ME Trescothick
Saleem Malik
RA Smith
DC Boon
LG Rowe
JH Edrich
MA Taylor
IR Redpath
Azhar Ali
BF Butcher
PA de Silva
HP Tillakaratne

CJL Rogers
Asad Shafiq
MJ Slater
C Washbrook
IR Bell
G Gambhir
GA Gooch
M Amarnath
RC Fredericks
IM Chappell
JB Stollmeyer
DL Haynes
PR Umrigar
CH Gayle
SC Ganguly
DB Vengsarkar
NS Sidhu
DJ McGlew
HH Gibbs
GR Viswanath
ME Waugh
CG Macartney
AG Prince
MP Vaughan
JC Adams
GN Yallop
KC Wessels
TM Dilshan
AJ Strauss
HW Taylor
M Vijay
LEG Ames
PD Collingwood
W Bardsley
AW Greig
Saeed Ahmed
MJ Prior
B Sutcliffe
ST Jayasuriya
SP Fleming
BL D'Oliveira
RR Sarwan
WJ Edrich
Putting Haynes above Greenidge is interesting, it's arguably the greatest opening partnership of all time, pitches weren't easy to bat on in the West Indies at the time facing the new ball, Yet Cuthbert Gordon always did just a bit better than Desmond, always made me feel sorry for him really.
 

NZTailender

I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Putting Haynes above Greenidge is interesting, it's arguably the greatest opening partnership of all time, pitches weren't easy to bat on in the West Indies at the time facing the new ball, Yet Cuthbert Gordon always did just a bit better than Desmond, always made me feel sorry for him really.
Didn't I highlight Greenidge? I thought I had haha.
 

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
It's Mark Waugh.

He average is only barely above 40 and that is quite amazing. He was the better batsmen of the two brothers. Waugh was always curious to watch for me because he would be batting so effortlessly and looking so good doing it and yet he would manage to lose his wicket in all sorts of odd, until that moment, ways. But never when it mattered. He would go in and paint 20 all over the ground and then get out to an unlucky shot, that Steve wouldn't have played in the first place, and the Mark show would be over. But it didn't matter. Australia were in the box seat. When it did matter, Mark had the goods.

For players who average 40's you are not after dogged defensive players. If that is their style then they are not great, because the great players of that style average 50+. Accumulators can be called great in a 40 odd average for the same reason.

So we are looking for stylish players, who don't give a crap about records and being stubborn and selfish. They are the one's who average 40 odd, despite being great. They are prepared to perform for a briefer period because they don't give a crap. Their life is about more than just cricket. While they are out there, they are there only to bat, and bat as good as it can look and fun as it can be.

If it's now Waugh, then it is Gower. Gower was my first favourite player, before someone told me he was English and I was meant to Hate him.
Nah mate, both Gower & Crowe were much better test bats than Mark Waugh, and it's not even close. Look at bowling & wickets Waugh had to contend with compared with the other two throughout their respective careers. Saying nothing about the fact both Gower & Crowe were both at least as elegant as Waugh, if you're factoring that.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
And the fact no one has mentioned Doug Walters in this discussion so far is a ****ing travesty.
 

Victor Ian

International Coach
Nah mate, both Gower & Crowe were much better test bats than Mark Waugh, and it's not even close. Look at bowling & wickets Waugh had to contend with compared with the other two throughout their respective careers. Saying nothing about the fact both Gower & Crowe were both at least as elegant as Waugh, if you're factoring that.
Somehow, I never got to admire Crowe, until after he retired. I just managed to miss all the good bits. What I wrote is purely on what I have seen so it is very Australia 1980+ centric. I can accept Gower but I probably also missed his best bits, only watching when he played Australia.
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Somehow, I never got to admire Crowe, until after he retired. I just managed to miss all the good bits. What I wrote is purely on what I have seen so it is very Australia 1980+ centric. I can accept Gower but I probably also missed his best bits, only watching when he played Australia.
I'm fairly certain most of Crowe's best came against Australia in 1980+
 

Victor Ian

International Coach
Yeah, and I was probably outside replaying the Australian Innings or playing the latest Atari games while they occurred. Very unfortunate for me. My early cricket didn't appreciate watching my team bowl. I might have to spend sometime reviewing Crowe by scorecard.
 

Contra

Cricketer Of The Year
pretty crappy century-to-test ratio though for real
That really doesn't change the fact that he played so many amazing innings which more than make up for his relative lack of centuries.

As to answer the question of this thread, definitely Sehwag for me.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
VVS Laxman tests-to-century ratio

A century every 7.88 tests



Bradman and Headley hovered around 2, Pollock and Steve Smith around 3, Hutton, Hobbs, Hammond and Tendulkar all around 4


now some Batsmen who you would be laughed at here if you suggested were better than VVS


Michael Atherton's

7.18

Nasser Hussain's

6.85

Paul Collingwood's

6.8


I'm sorry boys the verdict's in. Laxman brought his A-game every now and then, but he didn't knuckle down enough and go big enough for my liking
 

Howe_zat

Audio File
I'd say it's someone who averaged 50+ for the majority of their career and then dipped under that mark right at the end.

Neil Harvey averaged 50+ over 13 years and 70 tests. In the first half of his career he averaged ~60 and was probably the best middle order player in the world

Jayawardene averaged 50 for 148 tests out of 149
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
VVS Laxman tests-to-century ratio

A century every 7.88 tests



Bradman and Headley hovered around 2, Pollock and Steve Smith around 3, Hutton, Hobbs, Hammond and Tendulkar all around 4


now some Batsmen who you would be laughed at here if you suggested were better than VVS


Michael Atherton's

7.18

Nasser Hussain's

6.85

Paul Collingwood's

6.8


I'm sorry boys the verdict's in. Laxman brought his A-game every now and then, but he didn't knuckle down enough and go big enough for my liking
Your overall point is right, but comparing his century ratio to top order batsmen probably doesn't make sense. Laxman's century ratio would surely have been better had he been a number 3, like he always wanted to be.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yeah fair call on Athers, but Colly mainly batted @ 5 like Laxman right?

Also i'm half trolling, I know 100 is kind of an arbitrary number and he certainly made a ****-ton of fifties which I'm sure were often useful, but it's interesting food for thought


I think only Stephen Fleming has a worse tests-to-centurys ratio out of those considered to be potential ATG bats for their country
 
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Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I'd say it's someone who averaged 50+ for the majority of their career and then dipped under that mark right at the end.

Neil Harvey averaged 50+ over 13 years and 70 tests. In the first half of his career he averaged ~60 and was probably the best middle order player in the world

Jayawardene averaged 50 for 148 tests out of 149
Sure but that doesn't really factor weaker sides like NZ who roped the likes of Martin Crowe in against Lillee and Thomson when he was 19... Had he be born in Australia he probably wouldn't have played until he was 23.
 

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