Best Australia captain ever

[wpdavid]

I don't know how often Chappell was tested, tactically tbh. Probably in the West Indies in 73 when Lillee broke down. But I don't know that he had to do a lot more than toss the ball to Lillee and Thomson from 74 onwards. He built a very strong side though. He always had to bat three behind some pretty rubbish opening combos as well tbh, once he became skipper. He had Stacky there but Lawry had gone and the quality of openers from then until he retired weren't what you'd call top shelf.

Was Ian actually captain for very long after 1974? I thought his brother had taken over by the 1975/76 series against WI.
I suppose he must take huge credit for starting the rebuilding process after losing the 1970/71 Ashes, and he's always struck me as a pretty intelligent cricketer, as well as a good leader of men.
But as you say, in 1974/75, you'd think that Denness could have captained Aus to an easy series win with L&T at his disposal.

 

[wpdavid]

I'm surprised to see Ponting there with two Ashes defeats to his name. Just inserting England at Edgbaston in 2005 should disqualify him imo. As for 2009, failing to seal the win at Cardiff isn't great on his CV, and wasn't there some odd selection at The Oval, as to whether you picked a spinner or not? Maybe that wasn't down to him.

 

[Furball]

The Oval logic seemed to be '4 seamers worked last time so it'll work again', completely ignoring the pitch conditions.

 

[Furball]

I place a higher weighting on tactical nous than I do on inspiration, so even granting you the latter he's still nowhere near Ian Chappell, Taylor & Benaud for me.

I would probably go the other way. I don't think tactical nous is massively important, on the proviso that you've got a sharp vice captain who you're comfortable deferring to tactically.

 

[wpdavid]

The Oval logic seemed to be '4 seamers worked last time so it'll work again', completely ignoring the pitch conditions.

Quite so. Would Ponting have had any say in that, or was it down to the selectors?

 

[Furball]

Pretty sure the Australian captain and coach are (or at least were) effectively the selectors when they're on tour.

Ashes might be different as you'd imagine that would be the one tour the suits on both sides would invite themselves on for a jolly.

 

[smash84]

yeah, I'd go for good man management over tactical nous as preferably being the stronger suit.

Just look at Dhoni and Misbah (Smith?) to have recent examples as blokes who were tactically not that great but really managed to get so many wins due to their excellent man management.

 

[Prince EWS]

Misbah is actually pretty good tactically IMO.

 

[honestbharani]

yeah so is Dhoni at least until 2012 or so from when on he seemed to get too funky at times and too defensive at others. I would compare 2008-2011 MSD with Misbah right now tbh, in that they are both pretty good defensive captains, in that, while they are more on the defensive side tactically they still ensure they give their side the best possible chance to win and if not, draw games.

 

[OverratedSanity]

yeah so is Dhoni at least until 2012 or so from when on he seemed to get too funky at times and too defensive at others. I would compare 2008-2011 MSD with Misbah right now tbh, in that they are both pretty good defensive captains, in that, while they are more on the defensive side tactically they still ensure they give their side the best possible chance to win and if not, draw games.

Nah, a tactically good captain doesn't do what Dhoni did at Capetown

 

[honestbharani]

Nah, a tactically "great" captain doesn't do what MSD did at Capetown. The degrees matter.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Quite so. Would Ponting have had any say in that, or was it down to the selectors?

No, he never had any say. He pushed for it, then Clarke got it.

And relinquished it.

 

[Top_Cat]

Ponting, for all the other things he did well, was the worst tactically of the last 25 years. Won a lot of cricket so it's hard to criticise the bloke too much but handled guys like Johnson poorly and didn't have much of a sense of when to back off and just absorb the other side playing well. Supreme counter-attacker, though.

 

[vic_orthdox]

The use of Johnson was interesting. I remember writing here about how much of a freak Johnson seemed about bowling lots of overs at high pace, and he came into the side as a version of the stock bowler while Lee was in his prime and arguably the best pace bowler in the world. And nothing seemed like it needed to change when MJ took over from Lee in the pair of South African series.

Then everything went wrong in England!

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah Johnson was a freak and I can see why Ponting was suckered into thinking a wicket was a matter of time when he was on. A bloke bowling 145+ and still looking likely after 15 overs in a day, that's addictive. Don't think he ever let go of that either.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ponting, for all the other things he did well, was the worst tactically of the last 25 years. Won a lot of cricket so it's hard to criticise the bloke too much but handled guys like Johnson poorly and didn't have much of a sense of when to back off and just absorb the other side playing well. Supreme counter-attacker, though.

A disturbingly common misconception, this is

 

[smash84]

Misbah is actually pretty good tactically IMO.

I would disagree and not just because he is defensive.

 

[smash84]

Misbah is actually pretty good tactically IMO.

I would disagree and not just because he is defensive.