Greatest Limited Overs All-rounder of all time, tournament/voting thread

[smash84]

On the other hand , Symonds fits perfectly as one-day allrounder..explosive batting at a crucial position..btw his famous innings against Pak in 2003 was a "builder" one..5-10 overs of bowling and depending on the pitch spin or pace and finally as a fielder of high quality with ability to take great catches and a rocket arm..I will take Symonds..

I am a fan of Steve Waugh ..How in the world Shakib won that round? His record is better because of minnow bashing. no?

Waugh's bowling gave out less than halfway through his career. No way he would beat shakib. Shakib is a pretty gun ODI all rounder. Just because he's in a ****e team doesn't mean he himself isn't quality

 

[smash84]

Symonds was a filler in the bowling department. He shouldn't be in the all-rounders discussion. He could have been in the batting discussion.

The likes of Cronje and Steve Waugh were better ODI bowlers than Symonds imo.

I don't know about this. Symonds was pretty much in the same ballpark as these guys in his bowling

 

[viriya]

Waugh's bowling gave out less than halfway through his career. No way he would beat shakib. Shakib is a pretty gun ODI all rounder. Just because he's in a ****e team doesn't mean he himself isn't quality

He must be trolling if he thinks Waugh > Shakib as an ODI all-rounder. Shakib has a genuine argument for the GOAT and Waugh is not even part of that conversation.

 

[Red]

So your argument for bowling is that SR and Econ are more important, and Kallis does better on both in addition to being more of a wicket taker, so you pick... Symonds? ook
And apparently #3 is less important than #5/#6 now? News to me. Just because you need a finisher doesn't mean you don't need a builder.

imo Kallis is a class above Symonds as an all-rounder. He made double the runs + wickets, had 5 50 run + 3 wkt matches vs 0 for Symonds.. it's really not even close:
cricrate | Jacques Kallis vs Andrew Symonds - ODI All-Round

ffs

 

[Red]

Symonds was a filler in the bowling department. He shouldn't be in the all-rounders discussion. He could have been in the batting discussion.

The likes of Cronje and Steve Waugh were better ODI bowlers than Symonds imo.

he bowled roughly the same amount of overs per ODI as did Kallis…so I guess Kallis should be out too?

 

[viriya]

he bowled roughly the same amount of overs per ODI as did Kallis…so I guess Kallis should be out too?

Except that he was more expensive and didn't take wickets as often and did that for half the time, Symonds and Kallis are similar in terms of bowling.

/s

 

[smash84]

He must be trolling if he thinks Waugh > Shakib as an ODI all-rounder. Shakib has a genuine argument for the GOAT and Waugh is not even part of that conversation.

I wouldn't go that far. He's good but I would definitely put him below Kallis, Imran, Kapil, off the top of my mind

 

[viriya]

I wouldn't go that far. He's good but I would definitely put him below Kallis, Imran, Kapil, off the top of my mind

Look at his ODI record. Genuine all-rounder that could be selected as a batsman or bowler. 37-28 is a great average combo.

 

[smash84]

Look at his ODI record. Genuine all-rounder that could be selected as a batsman or bowler. 37-28 is a great average combo.

yeah but I don't think he's very good away from home. I remember him looking pretty toothless while bowling especially. Although to be fair I don't follow bangers that much.

 

[smash84]

here's the stats for Imran and him away from home. Imran is pretty consistent in both batting and bowling.

Shakib as expected falls away in the bowling.

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...home_or_away=3;template=results;type=allround

Edit: Adding Kapil to the mix as well, he's also pretty consistent home and away.

 

[mr_mister]

voting closes in an hour:

Imran leads 17-0
Freddie leads 16-1
Watto leads 13-3
Kallis leads 9-8

Harris leads 13-5
Klusener leads 9-8
Viv leads 15-1
Dev leads 16-0

 

[viriya]

Jacob Oram vs Imran Khan
Carl Hooper vs Andrew Flintoff
Shakib Al-Hasan vs Shane Watson
Andrew Symonds vs Jacques Kallis

Chris Harris vs Heath Streak
Lance Klusener vs Sanath Jayasuriya
Greg Chappell vs Viv Richards
Kapil Dev vs Abdul Razzaq

 

[viriya]

here's the stats for Imran and him away from home. Imran is pretty consistent in both batting and bowling.

Shakib as expected falls away in the bowling.

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

All-round records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Edit: Adding Kapil to the mix as well, he's also pretty consistent home and away.

If you take out neutral the consistency falls off. I'd guess it's cos Sharjah was like a home away from home. Shakib doing better with the ball at home isn't surprising as a spinner imo. Generally splitting home-away for ODIs doesn't seem worthwhile to me.

 

[jimmy101]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EPRD5vgYh8

^ Great video of Streak in his prime here.

 

[mr_mister]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EPRD5vgYh8

^ Great video of Streak in his prime here.

funnily enough this was the first international cricket game I ever went to, when I was 9. I didn't go to another til nearly 10 years later


I remember being very disappointed Lara got out for a duck

 

[Red]

Except that he was more expensive and didn't take wickets as often and did that for half the time, Symonds and Kallis are similar in terms of bowling.

/s

So if Kallis and Symonds are similar in terms of bowling, then Symonds is the better all rounder by far….correct?

 

[weldone]

So if Kallis and Symonds are similar in terms of bowling, then Symonds is the better all rounder by far….correct?

Lol, you missed the sarcasm in viriya's post.

 

[Red]

Their economy rates were pretty much identical, which is what really counts when you're looking at a 5th bowler.

And Symonds was a significantly better ODI bat than Kallis was.

 

[StephenZA]

Their economy rates were pretty much identical, which is what really counts when you're looking at a 5th bowler.

And Symonds was a significantly better ODI bat than Kallis was.

Emphatically disagree with both statements.

Taking wickets is the most important job for any bowler. And while similar economy rates, Kallis is still better. Regarding the batting, Kallis is better in every way except in SR. Thus your entire premise is that Symonds was better because he had a better SR.

Kallis always gets hammered because of his SR. Context however is important. The entire SA team was built around Kallis for a good ten years because it was not until the late 2000`s that we started getting players of the calibre of Smith, Amla and AB. Symonds played in a team with Hayden, Gilchrist, Pointing Waugh. If he failed there where plenty of other players to pick up the slack. Not so with Kallis for most of his career. That tends to make players a bit more cautious.

 

[smash84]

If you take out neutral the consistency falls off. I'd guess it's cos Sharjah was like a home away from home. Shakib doing better with the ball at home isn't surprising as a spinner imo. Generally splitting home-away for ODIs doesn't seem worthwhile to me.

Of course it doesn't. It goes against your argument