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Thread: Chris Cairns' Perjury Trial

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Chris Cairns' Perjury Trial

    Starts today

    What you need to know about the Cairns perjury trial | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

    Will no doubt be some remarkable revelations, but I can't help but question whether this prosecution is in the public interest

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    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    Errr, maintaining the precedent that you can't get away with perjury seems like it would be in the public interest.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Errr, maintaining the precedent that you can't get away with perjury seems like it would be in the public interest.
    This is true, and particularly so in the case of Cairns' solicitor who, if I have understood the allegations correctly, is said to have tried to persuade Vincent to give a false statement - my concerns arise out of the fact that most civil trials conclude with the court rejecting some evidence, often on the grounds that witnesses have lied, but that doesn't lead to police investigations - there is doubtless some prosection evidence other than the tainted evidence of Vincent and it will be interesting to see what that is, but if Modi couldn't prove his case on the balance of probabilities without Vincent, it strikes me that it's going to be very difficult to prove essentially the same case beyond reasonable doubt unless there is rather more than him to add to it

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    I don't quite understand, how is Modi trying to prove the same case beyond reasonable doubt? My take is this is about proving, beyond reasonable doubt, that Double-Barrelled Cairns Lawyer requested a false statement from Vincent and Cairns was complicit.

    Obvs, I'm not the lawyer here, but I'm interested and want to understand this properly
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    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    no, there's clear evidence that Brendon McCullum is providing that claims Cairns attempted to recruit him to fix.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    I don't quite understand, how is Modi trying to prove the same case beyond reasonable doubt? My take is this is about proving, beyond reasonable doubt, that Double-Barrelled Cairns Lawyer requested a false statement from Vincent and Cairns was complicit.

    Obvs, I'm not the lawyer here, but I'm interested and want to understand this properly
    The Crown Prosection Service will have to establish guilt beyond reasonable to doubt to get a conviction

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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    no, there's clear evidence that Brendon McCullum is providing that claims Cairns attempted to recruit him to fix.
    Wasn't aware of that - presumably Modi didn't know about that when his case was going on?

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    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredfertang View Post
    Wasn't aware of that - presumably Modi didn't know about that when his case was going on?
    it came to light recently, a couple of years after Modi's case.

    ...hence the perjury charge...

    Was an ongoing ICC investigation that was finally shed light on last year IIRC. McCullum's testimony quite critical as the others (Vincent, Tuffey) have their names heavily smeared.

    IIRC McCullum claims Cairns asked him to fix during the England tour when he got that 96 (Cairns had retired a few years earlier but was in England). McCullum himself was shocked (having looked up to Cairns as a childhood hero), and told Vettori and Mills about it, but didn't tell authorities. He obviously rebuffed the advances.

    He came forward to the ICC a year or so later, and they've been sitting on it for a number of years. They knew about it while the Modi case was ongoing.
    Last edited by hendrix; 05-10-2015 at 09:30 AM.

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    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    I assume that the only reason Modi's not suing the ICC yet for that dog move is because he's still planning yet another cricket league and counting on them looking the other way.
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    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    I assume that the only reason Modi's not suing the ICC yet for that dog move is because he's still planning yet another cricket league and counting on them looking the other way.
    he is suing.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Seems that Vincent recorded a skype conversation with Fitch Holland when they were discussing the evidence that Vincent might give for Cairns against Modi - that's going to be a tricky one for him to explain

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    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    The evidence the witnesses are expected to give:

    Quote Originally Posted by stuff.co.nz
    * Chris Harris (Black Caps, all-rounder): played for the Hyderabad Heroes in the Indian Cricket League (in which Cairns captained the Chandigarh Lions). Will say some ICL games in 2008 looked "peculiar", Cairns hit a simple catch, which was dropped, then was dismissed going for "a silly run". He looked unhappy when his team won a game both sides appeared to be trying to lose.

    * Brendon McCullum (Black Caps captain): Cairns explained spread betting to him in 2008 in India, where McCullum was playing in the Indian Premier League, saying he could get between $70,000 and $180,000 a game. McCullum said no. Cairns approached him again in England, in June 2008. McCullum told several people, but did not file an official report until 2011. He regrets the delay, but says it was because he idolised Cairns.

    * Daniel Vettori (former Black Caps captain): McCullum told him about the Cairns proposal.

    * Shane Bond (Black Caps, pace bowler): played for the Delhi Giants in the ICL. Recalls Cairns lacking enthusiasm when his wicketkeeper turned a 2008 match around, winning it with an outstanding innings. McCullum told him about the Cairns proposal.

    * Kyle Mills (Black Caps, pace bowler): McCullum told him about the Cairns proposal.

    * Ricky Ponting (Australia former captain): was in a hotel room with McCullum in 2008 when Cairns rang with a "business proposal".

    READ MORE: McCullum pitted against Cairns

    * Lou Vincent (Black Caps, opener): a Chandigarh team-mate of Cairns, who told him his (Vincent's) mental health problems were a perfect cover for fixing as he was "guaranteed to under perform". Cairns said to him Kiwi bowler Daryl Tuffey and Dinesh Mongia were involved in fixing. Vincent under-performed in four games on instruction. In the fourth game his fixing skills "failed him", he scored too many runs and cost a furious Cairns a great deal of money. Cairns threatened to hit him with a bat. (Vincent is now serving a life ban from the game).

    * Andre Adams (Black Caps, bowler): Vincent in 2008 approached him with a match fixing proposal. Was at a dinner where Cairns talked openly about fixing.

    * Elly Riley (Vincent's former wife): Got a call from Vincent, who was in tears as he had lost Cairns $250,000. Said Cairns was to pay him $50,000 a game, but he was not paid after the final match. At a dinner in England, Cairns told her everyone was match fixing and everything would be all right.
    source

    Quite a lot hinges on McCullum's evidence.

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    International Vice-Captain Gnske's Avatar
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    That last comment there by Cairns on everyone doing it is curious.While it could be utterly erroneous on his part to justify his actions, it makes you wonder how many like McCullum simply haven't reported stuff like this to anti-corruption authorities because of the seniority of some of the players doing it.

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    so basically cairns has to prove baz is telling fibbs despite having everything to lose in order to escape

    good luck with that
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    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    so basically cairns has to prove baz is telling fibbs despite having everything to lose in order to escape

    good luck with that
    In reality probably, although strictly he only has to create a reasonable doubt

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