***Official*** New Zealand Domestic Season 2014/15

[Bahnz]

I like what I've seen from Henry, just hope he's not another Canterbury special who spends more time with injuries than he does playing.

Milne is probably getting to the point of another CD Bowler who won't perform at higher levels too. I think although our ceiling is now much higher due to the Boult's, Southee's and Wagners, we don't have the mix/depth we used to have in the O'Brien, Martin, Gillespie, Southee etc era.

You don't think Milne will perform at higher levels? Given the pace and shape that he's capable of, I would've thought there's a very large upside to Milne's career potential (even if he hasn't really shown it at the international level yet).

I agree that he needs to stay on the park for that to happen but (touch wood) there's no reason why it shouldn't - none of his injuries so far have been career-killers, just little niggles here and there. In fact, I'd say none of Milne's injuries have been nearly as serious as the back stress fracture that the back injuries that Trent Boult and Matt Henry suffered during their early careers.

 

[Blocky]

I still think we need to take bowlers who have the raw tools to succeed and learn how to build processes around them that give them the polish to do their talent justice.

Mathieson, Milne, Wheeler, McCleneghan, Kuggeleijn, Verma - they've all got natural gifts in terms of their height and pace, they're all in their early to mid twenties, In the case of Verma his injuries have really destroyed him but he's apparently had the longest period of his life injury free just recently. How do we now get them bowling better lines without sacrificing their pace, how do we get bowling plans and variations that allow them to push past being average domestic players into proven wicket takers and get them ready for tests.

My view is NZ Cricket needs to grab someone like Ian Pont or Joe Dawes and put them in charge of a bowling academy. They also need the bowling academy to limit all training on hard concrete surfaces and only train on actual cricket wickets to avoid impact, etc.

We know that Boult and Southee (if they remain fit) should give us another 5 to 10 years of great leadership as the opening swing bowlers in the unit, but we need the mongrel of the attack to back them up and bowl serious heat - it's no good trying to turn Jimmy Baker into an NZ Bowler.

 

[Blocky]

so much for Wagner falling over at the crease. Bit out of shaoe, but no different to what he's looked like for every test match he's played.

Without meaning to insult you - are you blind? Look at his head position from the test series against India, look at his follow through - he was going straight through towards the batsman, now he's falling away horribly - his arm height has gone lower and he's obviously attempting to bowl as hard as he can because he's lacking rhythm.

You don't think Milne will perform at higher levels? Given the pace and shape that he's capable of, I would've thought there's a very large upside to Milne's career potential (even if he hasn't really shown it at the international level yet).

I agree that he needs to stay on the park for that to happen but (touch wood) there's no reason why it shouldn't - none of his injuries so far have been career-killers, just little niggles here and there. In fact, I'd say none of Milne's injuries have been nearly as serious as the back stress fracture that the back injuries that Trent Boult and Matt Henry suffered during their early careers.

I kind of talked about that in the post above, Milne has all the physical aspects to do OK but considering his pace and the fact that he's not even dominating at first class level, and that he's remained relatively stagnant (in the same time Boult went from a school boy to a proven test cricketer) - I'm not highly optimistic about him. I also don't think he has the mongrel in his character to do the job that say Kuggle or McCleneghan would probably relish

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

The good news for wannabe NZ fast bowlers is that there's pretty much a whole bowling attack's worth of spaces up for grabs in the Wellington line up in the next couple of years when Arnel, Gillespie and McKay retire.

 

[Blocky]

The good news for wannabe NZ fast bowlers is that there's pretty much a whole bowling attack's worth of spaces up for grabs in the Wellington line up in the next couple of years when Arnel, Gillespie and McKay retire.

Maybe Tip Friday will go back there when Otago realises how much he sucks at actual cricket and how his only use is as a net bowler.

 

[ohnoitsyou]

Without meaning to insult you - are you blind? Look at his head position from the test series against India, look at his follow through - he was going straight through towards the batsman, now he's falling away horribly - his arm height has gone lower and he's obviously attempting to bowl as hard as he can because he's lacking rhythm.

The first few overs are pretty bad, but he picks up as he goes on, which is normal for Wagner. Still a fair few balls where he's falling over when he's into his spells, but thats normal for wagner too.

 

[Dan]

Without meaning to insult you - are you blind? Look at his head position from the test series against India, look at his follow through - he was going straight through towards the batsman, now he's falling away horribly - his arm height has gone lower and he's obviously attempting to bowl as hard as he can because he's lacking rhythm.

I don't think he looks that bad tbh -- his body shape still looks mostly ok, but your stuff regarding head position and arm height is spot on IMO. His head looks to be too far inside the line of his body (so he's basically arching backwards mid-action), which then drags your arm down somewhat. All of that, from my limited understanding of biomechanics, would be consistent with him trying to bowl as hard (and fast) as he can with no concern for rhythm -- almost as if he's trying to get some of that Johnson-esque slingy-ness into a completely unsuited natural action.

It's not something that will hurt him too much in domestix, given he's basically h4x at that level to begin with (I mean, the first half of the video wasn't exactly of batsmen belting him all over the place), but I think if he were playing a Test tomorrow he'd be shown up somewhat.

 

[Blocky]

The first few overs are pretty bad, but he picks up as he goes on, which is normal for Wagner. Still a fair few balls where he's falling over when he's into his spells, but thats normal for wagner too.

I think as he bowled, he did get better, yes - but I still think his arm height, head position and follow through are all off from where they are when he's in form and bowling with rhythm. He will be down on confidence due to his performance in England County and his way of making up for that is to charge in harder and faster and try to power the ball through, that's just not going to work for him - so at this point in time I'd almost say get him out of the next cricket match with a good bit of video analysis and Shane Bond working with him on getting those key triggers back

 

[Blocky]

I don't think he looks that bad tbh -- his body shape still looks mostly ok, but your stuff regarding head position and arm height is spot on IMO. His head looks to be too far inside the line of his body (so he's basically arching backwards mid-action), which then drags your arm down somewhat. All of that, from my limited understanding of biomechanics, would be consistent with him trying to bowl as hard (and fast) as he can with no concern for rhythm -- almost as if he's trying to get some of that Johnson-esque slingy-ness into a completely unsuited natural action.

It's not something that will hurt him too much in domestix, given he's basically h4x at that level to begin with (I mean, the first half of the video wasn't exactly of batsmen belting him all over the place), but I think if he were playing a Test tomorrow he'd be shown up somewhat.

I don't like his follow through at the moment - I think ultimately that whole "Throw my shoulder through as hard as I can" is robbing him of his first two steps being straight towards the batsman, makes me wonder if he had issues with umpires in the UK asking him to get off the wicket sooner (as they tend to do)

 

[Blain]

Milne ****s on Mitch and Kugs in talent. He's only 22, Mitch barely strung 2 games together before he was in his mid twenties. As already said, his injuries have been more "niggly" than career threatening. Although I'd prefer NZ cricket to leave Milne off the international/A radar until new years, and actually get some bowling under his belt. Once he gets some confidence in his game and body, he'll fire up like all fasties do.

 

[Blocky]

Milne ****s on Mitch and Kugs in talent. He's only 22, Mitch barely strung 2 games together before he was in his mid twenties. As already said, his injuries have been more "niggly" than career threatening. Although I'd prefer NZ cricket to leave Milne off the international/A radar until new years, and actually get some bowling under his belt. Once he gets some confidence in his game and body, he'll fire up like all fasties do.

Talent, yes.
Mindset and aggression, no.

He's the type of guy that could kill you with his pace, bounce and such - but completely lacks the hostility he should have to use pace as a weapon. It seems to run in the blood in CD - the truly fast bowlers aren't hostile enough to make it count, while the medium pacers act as if they're bowling 145 ( Noema-Barnett, Bracewell, Schwass, etc)

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Maybe Tip Friday will go back there when Otago realises how much he sucks at actual cricket and how his only use is as a net bowler.

I think it more likely that Wellington will go after great young hopefuls like Graeme Aldridge or maybe Ewen Chatfield. Or, even more likely that that, see who Siddons can poach from Australia. Jayde Herrick is probably still at a reasonably loose end.

 

[Blocky]

I think it more likely that Wellington will go after great young hopefuls like Graeme Aldridge or maybe Ewen Chatfield. Or, even more likely that that, see who Siddons can poach from Australia. Jayde Herrick is probably still at a reasonably loose end.

hah... Arnel wasn't a bad acquisition - proven first class performer who also offers them a ready-to-go bowling coach... in terms of pure knowledge and ability as a coach, I'd say Arnel probably dwarfs Bond.

 

[hendrix]

Talent, yes.
Mindset and aggression, no.

He's the type of guy that could kill you with his pace, bounce and such - but completely lacks the hostility he should have to use pace as a weapon. It seems to run in the blood in CD - the truly fast bowlers aren't hostile enough to make it count, while the medium pacers act as if they're bowling 145 ( Noema-Barnett, Bracewell, Schwass, etc)

I don't agree with this at all, and even if I did I don't think hostility is something that can't be learnt.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

hah... Arnel wasn't a bad acquisition - proven first class performer who also offers them a ready-to-go bowling coach... in terms of pure knowledge and ability as a coach, I'd say Arnel probably dwarfs Bond.

McKay hasn't thrived down here, and the overseas pickups have been awful. Merchant, Rhodes, Hutchinson. Herrick probably the most successful. I certainly haven't seen much success in identifying and nurturing fast bowling talent in the top echelons of club cricket. Much easier to import talent than develop it yourself. I would assume it's tough for Arnel to do the work that needs to be done with the club talent when he's rightfully still a fixture in the first class scene.

 

[Blocky]

I don't agree with this at all, and even if I did I don't think hostility is something that can't be learnt.

Wanting to hurt people isn't something that is easily learnt, speaking as someone who has tried to train a number of the players I even mentioned above to be more hostile and focus more on intimidating the batsmen in order to take wickets. You either have it in you or you don't.

McKay hasn't thrived down here, and the overseas pickups have been awful. Merchant, Rhodes, Hutchinson. Herrick probably the most successful. I certainly haven't seen much success in identifying and nurturing fast bowling talent in the top echelons of club cricket. Much easier to import talent than develop it yourself. I would assume it's tough for Arnel to do the work that needs to be done with the club talent when he's rightfully still a fixture in the first class scene.

Arnel needs to be focusing on the younger cricketers in Wellington but you're right, there seems to be a massive issue in the culture and dynamic there, so many promising young cricketers giving the game up in the Wellington scene.

 

[Dan]

I think the problem with Milne is that they keep trying to get him involved in the ODI/T20 team, when it's pretty clear that right here, right now, he's a red ball bowler. Throwing him into international cricket via T20 against top teams, essentially telling him "here, leak 10rpo every game because you're raw, your pace makes edges fly for four on tiny grounds, and you aren't suited to this format anyway" isn't exactly going to aid his red ball development, IMO.

hah... Arnel wasn't a bad acquisition - proven first class performer who also offers them a ready-to-go bowling coach... in terms of pure knowledge and ability as a coach, I'd say Arnel probably dwarfs Bond.

Yeah, everything I've heard about Arnel as a coach (and as a human being) is that he's absolutely brilliant. Maybe he could be the guy to do the NZ academy stuff you're calling for.

 

[Blocky]

I think the problem with Milne is that they keep trying to get him involved in the ODI/T20 team, when it's pretty clear that right here, right now, he's a red ball bowler. Throwing him into international cricket via T20 against top teams, essentially telling him "here, leak 10rpo every game because you're raw, your pace makes edges fly for four on tiny grounds, and you aren't suited to this format anyway" isn't exactly going to aid his red ball development, IMO.

Yeah, everything I've heard about Arnel as a coach (and as a human being) is that he's absolutely brilliant. Maybe he could be the guy to do the NZ academy stuff you're calling for.

He would be a great pick for that, but I'm not sure NZ Cricket is that progressive.

Arnel has an amazing eye for picking up slight deficiencies in a bowling action, I pride myself on being able to analyse and systematically break down components of an action but it takes me an over or two - Arnel can do it in a delivery. He also has an amazing ability to prescribe actions and activities which correct flaws in action. The only thing I felt he doesn't have a great understanding on (yet) is changing wrist position, but then realistically only Simon Doull has ever managed that well in NZ.

Absolutely agree about Milne focusing on longer form cricket, but the problem is he has had those injuries so frequently and also unless he's changed since I last watched him live, he drops away in pace quite massively after his first four to six overs and doesn't really settle into Plan B.

 

[Blocky]

What Arnel lacks is the understanding of building strength in a way that's conducive to building and sustaining speed through a number of overs, that's something Bond has first hand experience on - but I think if you got Arnel and maybe Chris Donaldson together then you'd start to churn out guys who can bowl 140+ and keep it there throughout the day.

 

[Flem274*]

Talent, yes.
Mindset and aggression, no.

He's the type of guy that could kill you with his pace, bounce and such - but completely lacks the hostility he should have to use pace as a weapon. It seems to run in the blood in CD - the truly fast bowlers aren't hostile enough to make it count, while the medium pacers act as if they're bowling 145 ( Noema-Barnett, Bracewell, Schwass, etc)

he was quite happy chasing little ****s like Chand around with short pitched bowling on the A tour, and pulled the same stunts again against the Windies.

maybe it's just because im naturally violent, but even if milne is a mild guy anyone will have a crack when his blood is up. if he never becomes a bully with his pace but stays a fast inswing bowler then tbh if he can put the ball in the right areas at 145+ and swing it he's going to take test wickets.