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Benaud, Davidson, Rhodes and such - Allrounders True?

watson

Banned
Rhodes was a top bowler for the first few years of his test career but after that he was an average batsman who bowled a bit. I guess you could debate what that makes him but a genuine all-rounder he most certainly wasn't.
Rhodes was a top bowler for the first few years of his test career but after that he was an average batsman who bowled a bit. I guess you could debate what that makes him but a genuine all-rounder he most certainly wasn't.
Wilfred Rhodes was a great bowler for most of his career with the startling fact that he has bowled to both WG Grace (1898) and Don Bradman (1930). Please note that in the following scorecard that he knocked over none other than Archie Jackson while taking a 5-fer;

http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/4/4951.html

The Home of CricketArchive
 
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watson

Banned
I think that the term that we are all struggling to find, then define, is - 'Balanced Allrounder.' And there has apparently been only a handful of those, with IT Botham being THE prime example;

In search of the balanced allrounder

The beauty of cricket lies in the variety of different roles players can assume when they play the game. I contend there exists a continuum, with specialist bowlers at one end, specialist batsmen at the other, and a range of different types of allrounder in between. The terms "bowling allrounder" and "batting allrounder" are often used in reference to particular players, and it follows that in between these two categories, there must be a group of players whose allround capabilities are perfectly balanced; that is, they bat equally well as they bowl.

If my continuum does exist, then it should be possible to quantify each player's position along this line, and to determine who the "perfectly balanced" allrounders have been in the game's history.

Concerning myself with just Test cricket, I started with two extremes: the "purest" batsman was surely Brian Lara, who scored 11,953 runs in 131 Tests, but failed to take a wicket, the only scorer of 10,000 runs to do so. At the other end of the scale, we have South Africa's Mfuneko Ngam, who was only trusted with the bat once in his three Tests, scoring 0 not out, but was good enough as a bowler to take 11 wickets.

Of the 2551 Test players at the time of writing, 1085 failed either to score a run or take a wicket, and these may be regarded as our specialist players (either batsmen or bowlers), leaving 1467 players who can theoretically be regarded to some degree as allrounders. Readers may not be convinced of the allround credentials of Rahul Dravid, who has one wicket to go along with his 10,823 runs, and so we need to weed out these genuine batting specialists who by some freakish circumstance, have ended up with a small number of wickets.

Similarly, at the other end, we cannot seriously regard the likes of England's Bill Bowes (68 wickets) as a bowling allrounder, even though he scored 28 runs in 15 Tests, so from that end, we also need to establish a point beyond which a player can be regarded as a bowling specialist only, even though he may have scored the odd run here and there.

It will probably be obvious by now that the simplest (and perhaps most effective) way of establishing our continuum is to divide the number of runs a player has scored by the wickets he has taken. Using our two extremes, Dravid comes out with an allround index of 10823, while Bowes' is 0.41. The index for true allrounders, of course, lies within a much a narrower range,and with absolutely no theoretical basis for my conclusion, other than matching the results with my observations of players over many years, it seems that the figure of 14 is the point of equilibrium, where a player's batting is perfectly balanced with his bowling.

In fact no-one with 20 Tests under their belt has an index of exactly 14, but some come near. Of the megastars in the game's history, Ian Botham (13.58) comes the closest, while Jack Gregory (13.48), Ray Illingworth (15.05) and Chris Cairns (15.23) also seem to be extraordinarily balanced in their contributions with both bat and ball, the latter two obviously having a slight bias in favour of their batting. The closest with a 20-Test minimum is the little remembered nineteeth-century allrounder from England, William Barnes (14.22). The following table lists those whose indices lie in between 13 and 15:

.........So there we have it: a classification of players into five groups, Bowlers (Indices 0 to 7), Bowling Allrounders (7 to 10), Balanced Allrounders (10 to 20), Batting Allrounders (20 to 100) and Batsmen (above 100). These boundaries are purely subjective, and will no doubt promote some comment - but don't forget, this is NOT an analysis of who the BEST allrounders are!

Blogs: In search of the balanced allrounder | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo
 
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Dissector

International Debutant
Wilfred Rhodes was a great bowler for most of his career with the startling fact that he has bowled to both WG Grace (1898) and Don Bradman (1930). Please note that in the following scorecard that he knocked over none other than Archie Jackson while taking a 5-fer;

The Home of CricketArchive

The Home of CricketArchive
Huh? Bowling to Grace and Bradman makes Rhodes a great test bowler? Take a look at his stats. He was excellent for the first few years covering 13 tests out of 58. After that he was completely ordinary.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
I've always thought of Keith Miller as a batting allrounder who underachieved with the bat at Test level.
 

watson

Banned
Huh? Bowling to Grace and Bradman makes Rhodes a great test bowler? Take a look at his stats. He was excellent for the first few years covering 13 tests out of 58. After that he was completely ordinary.
OK fair enough. In the context of Test Cricket I'll change the word 'most' to 'a significant amount' for the sake of accuracy.

However, in the context of First Class cricket his figures remained excellent from 1898 (154 wickets at 14.6) to 1930 (73 wickets at 19.1).

The Home of CricketArchive
 
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Hooksey

Banned
Runs divided by wickets is indeed elementary my dear Watson.

Botham has been flagged as the yardstick with his 5,200 runs divided by 383 wickets = 13.57.


Let's apply the formula to Jacques Kallis who with 288 test wickets surely must be considered an allrounder. But is he a "balanced' allrounder?
Kallis: 13,128 runs divided by 288 wickets = 45.58.

So no, Kallis is not a balanced allrounder, at least according to the formula.


Now a bold step into the unknown:

Adam Gilchrist: 5,570 runs divided by 416 dismissals = 13.38

Gilchrist's ratio is almost the same as Botham's.
 

watson

Banned
Runs divided by wickets is indeed elementary my dear Watson.

Botham has been flagged as the yardstick with his 5,200 runs divided by 383 wickets = 13.57.


Let's apply the formula to Jacques Kallis who with 288 test wickets surely must be considered an allrounder. But is he a "balanced' allrounder?
Kallis: 13,128 runs divided by 288 wickets = 45.58.

So no, Kallis is not a balanced allrounder, at least according to the formula.


Now a bold step into the unknown:

Adam Gilchrist: 5,570 runs divided by 416 dismissals = 13.38

Gilchrist's ratio is almost the same as Botham's.
I think (perhaps) that the methodology disadvantages great batsman (like Kallis) and great bowlers, For example, a batsman with a high batting average will skew the ratio unless he also gets an unrealistic amount of wickets to match.
 
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watson

Banned
Blogs: In search of the balanced allrounder | Cricket Blogs | ESPN Cricinfo

Good to see that Miller, Botham, Kapil, Greig, Flintoff, Mankad, Rhodes, Faulkner, Noble, Gregory, Cairns and Goddard all fall in between 12 and 21. It is quite obvious that their skills were quite balanced. I had missed out on Sinclair and Bailey. But they probably didn't do as much as those 10 to deserve to be ranked with them.
I was also interested to see Ray Illingworth with a score of 15 as I've always thought of him as an off-spinner without much batting skill. As it turns out he scored some valuable runs at No.7 (and even No.6) for England, albeit rather defensively.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo
 

Hooksey

Banned
I think (perhaps) that the methodology disadvantages great batsman (like Kallis) and great bowlers, For example, a batsman with a high batting average will skew the ratio unless he also gets an unrealistic amount of wickets to match.
It absolutely disadvantages players stronger in one discipline, and that would be why it is being referred to as 'balanced' - ie similarly successful in both skills.

An irony in this system of evaluation is a poorly performed allrounder may not succeed with either bat or ball prior to being discarded. So it's not impossible to have a Botham-like score of around 13.5 if you fail equally with bat and ball.
 

Hooksey

Banned

Hooksey

Banned
Taking a further step into the unknown by applying this 'balanced' allrounder principal to wicketkeepers:

Brad Haddin: 2,514 runs divided by 198 dismissals = 12.69.

Matt Prior 3,766 runs divided by 217 dismissals = 17.35.


...and as already calculated:

Adam Gilchrist: 5,570 runs divided by 416 dismissals = 13.38.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
It absolutely disadvantages players stronger in one discipline, and that would be why it is being referred to as 'balanced' - ie similarly successful in both skills.

An irony in this system of evaluation is a poorly performed allrounder may not succeed with either bat or ball prior to being discarded. So it's not impossible to have a Botham-like score of around 13.5 if you fail equally with bat and ball.


A major weakness is that it only deals with runs and wickets (not averages). There can be well-balanced allrounders who were containing, as opposed to, wicket taking allrounders. Jacob Oram is the perfect example. He was good enough to play test cricket as a 3rd or 4th seamer, get bounce, tie up an end (economy rate of 2.34 - more miserly than McGrath) and chip out a few wickets. Oram's batting average was 36.32 while bowling was 33.05 which would indicate a very balanced allrounder, but as he 'only' took 60 wickets in his 33 tests (sometimes not bowling as much due to injury) compared to scoring 1780 runs, gives him a score of almost 30.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
The system's too flawed to have merit. And it's unnecessary as all the attributes of the great all rounders are known and easily accessed.
 

Hooksey

Banned
The system's too flawed to have merit...
It is only a system that measures 'balance', and not particularly quality.

With the extreme being that a poorly performed allrounder may not succeed with bat or ball. But if he fails equally with both it's not impossible for him to boast a Botham-like 'balance' score of around 13.5.
 

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