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Thread: ***Official*** New Zealand in Bangladesh & Sri Lanka 2013

  1. #736
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straw man View Post
    I just don't think any other bowler of ours bar Southee would make any real difference to our attack and I think there's a fair bit of wishful thinking in the idea that Vettori or Wagner would provide any noticeable improvement. They just happen to be missing out on criticism on account of not playing. Criticism based on a bowling effort that is 26 overs old and in its infancy; I mean no Bartin wasn't good but he's only bowled three overs and only the first was terrible.
    Nah there's no way Vettori would've bowled that many pies. He might not have been penetrative but he would've at least tied up an end.

  2. #737
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Not neccessarily. I get the feeling Bracewell's bang it in method is a definite plan, since coaching staff have talked about him being the aggressive one iirc.

    That and well, you saw all McDermott had to do to improve Siddle...
    I get the feeling with doug that he's not actually bowling short on purpose, his action is just very tense and up-and-down so when he tries to bowl faster or gets into a more aggressive mindset it automatically ends up being dragged down even when he's actually trying to bowl full. It's pretty common for fast bowlers and I know them feels. In domestic cricket he seems to have no trouble keeping it full so I think nerves are probably getting to him more than he lets on.
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  3. #738
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Edit @ Hendrix: well yes, but he has shown better control when he pitches the ball up, and to an extent in the past with the back of a length crap. Control isn't universal, and some bowlers find it easier to control what they're doing with different lines and lengths.
    Well, everything we've heard from the coaches and team is that on the subcontinent you need to pitch it up and bowl straight. No width, minimal short stuff etc etc.

    I just find it hard to believe that Bond has other plans for Bracewell.

    Especially given that he was opening the bowling, not bowling first change.

  4. #739
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Nah there's no way Vettori would've bowled that many pies. He might not have been penetrative but he would've at least tied up an end.
    Vettori is certainly better than ish or anderson but I still don't buy that he should be part of our strongest four man bowling lineup. It's no coincidence that our best recent test performances have come largely without Dan. If Kane didn't exist, he'd be batting 6 or 7 and sending down a few overs as a batting allrounder but now he's just not necessary.

    It feels weird saying that, considering how many times he was a one-man team for us. I just get the feeling that he's a "Making losses look not so bad" specialist and isn't the kind of player capable of actually bringing us over the line.
    Last edited by wellAlbidarned; 10-10-2013 at 05:48 PM.


  5. #740
    International Vice-Captain Mike5181's Avatar
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    Random post alert:

    Anyone else think that the group of players we have at the moment, and will likely have in the mix sometime in the next few months (Milne, Ryder etc.) is just so much better to watch than what we've had in the last few years? I always had 3-4 players I liked watching, but with this group I genuinely enjoy watching all of:

    Rutherford
    Williamson
    Taylor
    Ryder
    McCullum
    Watling+
    Southee
    Sodhi
    Milne
    Boult

    Throw in Anderson, Neesham, Henry, Brownlie, Mitch, Wagner etc and Mike's happy. I'd have to go back a decade when Astle, Cairns, Sinclair, Bond, Fleming etc were all around to find an NZ team I enjoyed watching quite as much.
    Last edited by Mike5181; 10-10-2013 at 05:52 PM.
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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    Vettori is certainly better than ish or anderson but I still don't buy that he should be part of our strongest four man bowling lineup. It's no coincidence that our best recent test performances have come largely without Dan. If Kane didn't exist, he'd be batting 6 or 7 and sending down a few overs as a batting allrounder but now he's just not necessary.

    It feels weird saying that, considering how many times he was a one-man team for us. I just get the feeling that he's a "Making losses look not so bad" specialist and isn't the kind of player capable of actually bringing us over the line.
    I think he could have won more games with the blade had he had more support, but he's a stock pressure builder with the ball.
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    Jeets doesn't really deserve to be bowling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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  7. #742
    International Captain straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    It feels weird saying that, considering how many times he was a one-man team for us. I just get the feeling that he's a "Making losses look not so bad" specialist and isn't the kind of player capable of actually bringing us over the line.
    Yes the posts on here about the last couple of times we toured Bangladesh really brought that back to me - that period around 2008-2010 was the peak of the Vettori-one-man-team time for us.

  8. #743
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    Vettori is certainly better than ish or anderson but I still don't buy that he should be part of our strongest four man bowling lineup.
    We have two very good, proven bowlers right now. Southee and Boult. That's it.

    Even if we go with the untested (but hugely exciting) Milne, our best attack is Southee, Boult, Milne, Vettori.

    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    It's no coincidence that our best recent test performances have come largely without Dan. If Kane didn't exist, he'd be batting 6 or 7 and sending down a few overs as a batting allrounder but now he's just not necessary.
    Nah I don't buy this. The win in Hobart was on a seaming wicket where I think not a single over of spin was bowled. There aren't many wickets like that in the world.

    The win in Galle required lots of tight overs with the old ball. Bracewell was largely ineffective. Todd Astle picked up a key wicket. That was one wicket, but it was absolutely vital. Even if we assume Vettori is not very penetrative, I still think he can easily be relied upon to pick up the odd crucial wicket and keep things tight with the old ball. That is an essential skill given the extent to which Southee and Boult rely on new ball wickets.

  9. #744
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    I think he could have won more games with the blade had he had more support, but he's a stock pressure builder with the ball.
    Honestly, these two characteristics are exactly what the team needs right now and has needed in his absence.

  10. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    I thought the selection of Mominul ahead of Naeem was entirely unjustified - still do tbh - but he's certainly shutting me up a bit here.
    Mominul was averaging close to fifty from his three tests before this match, I think his selection was fine tbh, heard he is meant to be Bangladesh's big new batsman
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  11. #746
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    We have two very good, proven bowlers right now. Southee and Boult. That's it.

    Even if we go with the untested (but hugely exciting) Milne, our best attack is Southee, Boult, Milne, Vettori.



    Nah I don't buy this. The win in Hobart was on a seaming wicket where I think not a single over of spin was bowled. There aren't many wickets like that in the world.

    The win in Galle required lots of tight overs with the old ball. Bracewell was largely ineffective. Todd Astle picked up a key wicket. That was one wicket, but it was absolutely vital. Even if we assume Vettori is not very penetrative, I still think he can easily be relied upon to pick up the odd crucial wicket and keep things tight with the old ball. That is an essential skill given the extent to which Southee and Boult rely on new ball wickets.
    It feels like dan's economy in tests is being slightly overstated. He was getting picked off at near 3 an over without getting any wickets when he was last playing. Is he still an excellent LO bowler? Yes. That hasn't translated into test performances for years. Happy to eat my words, but he's well past it as a first-on-the-team-sheet bowler. I'd rather unproven youth than proven mediocrity.

  12. #747
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    The win in Galle required lots of tight overs with the old ball. Bracewell was largely ineffective. Todd Astle picked up a key wicket. That was one wicket, but it was absolutely vital. .
    This is sort of exactly what I mean. Whenever he's not playing, everyone else seems to step up their game a few notches for whatever reason.

  13. #748
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    I'd rather unproven youth than proven mediocrity.
    what unproven youth though? Assuming we already get Milne in the team, who else would you want in the 4th bowlers spot? Noone else justifies selection IMO.

  14. #749
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    It'll be interesting to see how much Ish goes to the googly today. Bowled just one last night, and Marshall picked it up so easily that it was as if Ish had a flashing light over his head saying "wrong'un".
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  15. #750
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wellAlbidarned View Post
    This is sort of exactly what I mean. Whenever he's not playing, everyone else seems to step up their game a few notches for whatever reason.
    Yeah New Zealand's record of 1 win, 8 losses and 3 draws since Vettori destroyed his ankle is obvious evidence of this trend.



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