• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Should Hill and Erasmus be retired?

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
Serious question. At times during the Ashes series it struck me that these two officials had to be either bent, mentally defective, visually impaired, or "on a frolic of their own". The latter hypothesis only occurred to me after Hill turned down two absolutely plumb lbw appeals by Broad in the same Test and in identical circumstances (England having run out of reviews). Either the Kiwi was "punishing" the bowler for his "unpleasant" (Broad's own words) demeanour and overenthusiastic style of appealing, or he was conducting some sort of obscure campaign of subversion against the sport's lbw law.

As for Erasmus, he's proven time and again over the years that he cannot be relied upon to make correct calls on quite straightforward decisions even as third umpire and with the benefit of a variety of different camera angles, slow motion replays and other technological aids. (Interestingly, on each of the many occasions he's made these howlers when I've been watching, the TV analysts have made the right call without hesitation and mostly without even having to rely on the more exotic decision making tools).

If this man is not forced to take an eye exam and to accept being breath tested before being allowed into the third umpire's booth at the start of each morning's play in future, then someone at the ICC is not doing his job. Hill should be made to take an eye exam (and perhaps a simple IQ test) also. All this should be pending a thoroughgoing review of the performance and competence not only of these two officials but of international umpires in general. There's no time to waste as this latest Ashes series has left a bitter taste in my mouth: guys have got big centuries having been 'out' but not given five or six times before having reached thirty!
 

91Jmay

International Coach
The thing is its alright retiring all these umpires, but you have to remember that then other ones come in in there place. Ones who are considered worse in the first place.
 

Crazy Sam

International 12th Man
Most people were calling for Bucknor and Koertzen to retire because they were getting on but I think Tony Hill is older now while still an elite panel umpire than at least one of those two was when they retired. This may be related to his being elevated to the panel only 4 years ago. It's weird to think they saw fit to dump Asad and Billy in a 12 month period that included 10 tests which can now only be umpired by four umpires on the elite panel, but one can only assume those two were considered to be even worse than the 4 we've had this series. I'm not sure who else there is that would be capable of stepping up for the series in Australia??
 
Last edited:

LegionOfBrad

International Debutant
Wasn't Rauf dumped for the unproved spot fixing thing? I know they said performance but it had to have played a part. Its actually a crazy state of things when people are wanting Billy back on the elite list for the return Ashes. But the ICC have made their bed.
 
Last edited:

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
The people making these decisions are crazy. I always rated Aleem Dar - notwithstanding a few recent mistakes, for which he's been rightly criticized - and Asad Rauf as the best present-day umpires, and by quite a distance. Oxenford, Taufel, Dharmasena are the others I also rate. Don't watch enough cricket to pose as the oracle on which of the current ones are any good, but I do know that the two mentioned in the OP are atrocious and along with some of the other names on the current panel you can basically be guaranteed if they are called up for a Test to have some key decisions called wrong.

It's then a question of whether the DRS system is first robust enough and then available for a team to use in order to save the day. It seems to me that this pretentious Umpire's Call halfway house is possibly the biggest fault of the present implementation of the technology. I simply don't trust the calls of Hill or Erasmus and don't reckon that any undue weight should be given to them. Either we improve the basket of technologies used to the point where, as with Hawkeye in Tennis, a consensus develops amongst all stakeholders which enables it to become generally accepted as a standard, even when the occasional mark in the clay attests to its calibration being out by a millimetre here or there, or we go back to the old way.

At present we're caught between two stools and it seems to me that the very existence of the technology is causing umpiring standards to decline to the point where the net effect is actually worse. This can be seen most clearly in close matches where one team runs out of DRS appeals as a result of say two decisions which are ruled Umpire's Call. The fact that this team is now completely at the mercy of umpiring incompetence while the opposition retains the ability to rescue the most blatant howlers puts the team which has lost out on Umpire's Call at a completely unfair disadvantage. We have seen in the just completed series that depending on the exigencies of the match situation this running out of reviews can tip the balance in favour of one team or another to an extent that decides the contest. That is not what the technology was designed to do. And for the amateur statisticians among us who might be about to pop up to remind me that "it all evens itself out in the end" no it does not. Three or four or five Test match series are nowhere near sufficient as sample sizes for this statistical rule of thumb to be valid.
 

CWB304

U19 Cricketer
It just occurred to me that there is something culturally quite significant in different countries' reactions to the approach which has been taken to DRS implementation. The English with their traditions of empiricism and pragmatism and the common law and "muddling through" (I use the term affectionately) are quite happy with what they see, perhaps rightly, as a realistic acceptance of the element of chance and custom and tradition in affairs, and are therefore quite happy to hold on to Umpire's Call, even though it might strike others as a redundant anachronism.

And perhaps the party supporting the present unsatisfactory state of affairs as regards DRS implementation comprises those who have followed the English lead without having thought things through for themselves. It seems to me that the Indians would prefer that the fiction of a single "right" or "wrong" decision be promoted - as in tennis with Hawkeye - in order to replace the now degraded authority of the umpire with something as massive and imposing and impersonal as this authority once used to be. I used to be very critical of the BCCI attitude but am now coming to see the merits of the stand it has taken and now agree with the Indians that urgent work needs to be done to improve both the technology and its implementation before DRS can be said to be ready for prime time.
 
Last edited:

smash84

The Tiger King
CWB, it isn't much fun to see yourself eating your own words. First regarding Ian Bell and then on BCCI's stance. Well, at least you have stood true to your word as you once said something to the effect (IIRC) "I will be the first to admit my mistake in case I am proven wrong, the chances of which seem slim" :p
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
I was watching my 2010/11 Ashes DVDs recently and Hill was ****ing garbage at Adelaide as well. He's an absolutely woeful umpire.
 

BeeGee

International Captain
If there are two better umpires out there that could replace them, then yes they should be retired.

I sincerely hope there are two better umpires out there given how poor Hill and Erasmus have been.
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
If there are two better umpires out there that could replace them, then yes they should be retired.

I sincerely hope there are two better umpires out there given how poor Hill and Erasmus have been.
Yeah, that's the issue - while Erasmus and Hill are both terrible, there's no point replacing them if the next-best non-English/Australian umpires are even worse.
 

LongHopCassidy

International Captain
Yeah, that's the issue - while Erasmus and Hill are both terrible, there's no point replacing them if the next-best non-English/Australian umpires are even worse.
I have the utmost faith that no umpire with a reasonable case for Elite Panel status could screw up as badly as the aforementioned, even if they wanted to. Nearly every line-ball decision went the wrong way prior - and sometimes even after - the review.

Would like to see a promotion/relegation system based on percentage of correct decisions.
 

Top