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Thread: **Official** New Zealand Domestic Season 2013/2014

  1. #2251
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    no, it's because you don't understand where the topic of conversation is heading.

    I.e. "Wagner's performance is going to be critical in this series and he needs to do better than what he's done in his career, because otherwise he's a major weak link"

    and then you start talking about how good Wagner is. I.e. not the topic at hand.
    So you're about as good at sticking to "ignore list" as you are statistics I see, if your viewpoint was the actual discussion, why were his statistics questioned again and again until I actually had to bring them out of Cricinfo and show them? Don't change your argument after it's been made moot.

    The Broad vs Sodhi debate makes me laugh a little - the reason Broad was persisted with (After being dropped for a time) was that his assets were plain to see and many felt he was unlucky to not be picking up a lot more wickets, he had pace, he had height and he had assets that you could plainly see, even during the initial period he was bowling spells for England that looked unplayable so they stuck with him and matured him, similar to how we've done with Southee where he went from being deeply inconsistent but brilliant on his day, to a lot more consistent.

    With Sodhi, you don't have any inclination (until ironically his most recent performance against Canterbury) that talent was there and that he could rip through sides. He didn't have particularly great statistics for an U19 and U21 player and as we've discussed, he's not even the best spinner in his county on pure performance statistics. But this country has a habit of wanting a leg spinner and we've tried some terrible options - Astle (no domestic performance, although sounder than Sodhi solely due to his batting), Loveridge, Nethula, Walker. I can't actually think of a leg spinner who hasn't had a trundle for NZ.

    Sodhi doesn't have a massively turning leg break, at least not one he can consistently bowl and land. I'll give him due credit and say that he has a pretty good wrong'un but top order players don't seem to have any issue picking him, his arm action which has been covered is much too high to get the type of dip and spin that players like Mushtaq Ahmed and Kaneria get (not to mention Muirhead) and he still struggles to land more than four deliveries an over. So far he's played against Bangladesh in Bangladesh and West Indies here at home, neither nation have world class batsmen with the exception of Chanderpaul and maybe if we're being kind, Darren Bravo - and neither nation offered wickets up to Sodhi for less than 50 at a run rate near four.

    To be honest, I see more potential for Sodhi developing into a batting all rounder than I do a bowler, but he has a hard road there because there are three players in ND that are probably better than he is with a fourth setting all sorts of youth records for HBHS. I would be highly surprised if India didn't butcher him out of the attack, the only reason they won't is if they figure out that keeping him at four an over might mean he bowls more than 10 in an innings. The selection really makes me wonder why they've gone for him, because there is nothing there than indicates he'll trouble India and India are probably the worst team to throw a new spinner at.

    And the "Give me a spinner who is better" - there already is one in the NZ side in Williamson. Potentially two considering Ryder seemed to land every single offie he bowled in the T20 match

  2. #2252
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    guptill took 3/34 or something once against pakistan. ross taylor has a couple of wickets somewhere.

    just sayin'
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    Well yeah Tendy is probably better than Bradman, but Bradman was 70 years ago, if he grew up in the modern era he'd still easily be the best. Though he wasn't, can understand the argument for Tendy even though I don't agree.
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    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    i think i floated the idea before but a classic kiwi dibbly dobbly who can bowl and bowl and bowl cute cutters or whatever and 2 rpo and hold a bat and field is probably more useful than most of our spin bowling options. bring back chris harris.
    I wouldn't mind some gavin larsen guy off 6 steps. What I object to is 4 guys with run ups from where the 30 yard circle would be and Anderson.
    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    I got great enjoyment in going to the game and shouting "WHY THE **** ISN'T THIS GAME BEING PLAYED AT THE BASIN?!>!?!?" to reasonably significant cheers from the sparse crowd
    Proudly against the bring back Bennett movement since he is injury prone and won't last 5 days.


  5. #2255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I wouldn't mind some gavin larsen guy off 6 steps. What I object to is 4 guys with run ups from where the 30 yard circle would be and Anderson.
    So drop Sodhi and play Ryder, tell him to come in off his five pace run and bowl 115-120kmh dobblies.
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  6. #2256
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    Thanks for your comprehensive answer.

    They will not go with 4 seamers. It puts too much on to Kane if it turns or we need to get through overs.
    I've got it! We get Jimmy Neesham in to bowl his 4 step 135k dobblies! That way we get a 4th seamer and a bowler who only gets through an over every 2 minutes!

    Seriously though, if the pitch turns we're ****ed anyway. As for the overrates, nobody cared when England bowled about 80 overs in the final test at Sydney so I doubt they'll care about us doing the same at Auckland. I know they won't go with 4 seamers - especially now that they've picked Bracewell. Doesn't change the fact that it's the right way to go though.
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    ellis to shorten his run up even further
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  8. #2258
    Cricketer Of The Year Bahnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blocky View Post
    So drop Sodhi and play Ryder, tell him to come in off his five pace run and bowl 115-120kmh dobblies.
    If we could field a 3rd seamer of Southee and Boult's quality this would be a legitimately excellent idea.

  9. #2259
    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    If we could field a 3rd seamer of Southee and Boult's quality this would be a legitimately excellent idea.
    1. Fulton
    2. Rutherford
    3. Williamson (6/5)
    4. Taylor
    5. Ryder (5/6)
    6. Anderson (4)
    7. Watling +
    8. McCullum*
    9. Southee
    10. Henry
    11. Boult

    Specialist captains FTW

  10. #2260
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    Guptill
    McCullum
    Williamson
    Taylor
    Ryder
    Anderson
    Watling (+)
    Southee
    Wagner
    Boult

    Insert a Wellington player of your choice.

    Top XI, would go far.
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  11. #2261
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    j33ts?

    Well, him or Papps.

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  12. #2262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Specialist captains FTW
    Take a point in time, say the entry of Williamson into the team - compare the statistics of all NZ batsmen in that time period and the positions they've batted. If you still believe McCullum hasn't pulled his weight initially as a keeper batsman and then specialist batsman, you seemingly think NZ grow a tonne of people on trees that can average 35 in test cricket.

    His returns are perceived bad, solely because we look at his talent when he's on form and can't imagine why he's not in Taylor's league as a player, but as an NZ cricketer, he puts himself well ahead of the standard crap available. Our 3,4,5 and,7 are probably as strong as they've ever been in tests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    guptill took 3/34 or something once against pakistan. ross taylor has a couple of wickets somewhere.

    just sayin'
    Would be awesome if Guptill acquired Nicol's bowling ability than we could play 4 seamers + corey to our hearts content.

  14. #2264
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    We already have Ryder who can bowl and who's an exponentially better batsman than Guptill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    We already have Ryder who can bowl and who's an exponentially better batsman than Guptill.
    I was thinking more in terms of the tie up an end spinner, Ryder's ability to bowl is always going to be fitness dependent, and his place in the side McHesson dependent.

    Just thinking hypothetically, if we lose the first test and Ryder scores big runs for Otago, I wonder than if they will move McCullum up the order to include him.



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