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Thread: Dire Times Ahead For England

  1. #16
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Then there is Croft as well.

    I felt Crawley got treated unfairly by the England selectors, but the 2003 season for Hampsire was pretty poor.
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  2. #17
    U19 12th Man JohnnyA's Avatar
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    OK ... so if we say that four batting spots will be opening up in the next 3-5 years. Who will take these spots? Some names so far:

    Key - good technique poor psychology
    Shah - horrible technique from what I remember
    McGrath - even worse static technique
    Smith - shuffler with very poor foot movement
    Solanki - looked OK from what I've seen.
    Collingwood - good one-day player ... no more from what he's shown
    Wagh
    Strauss
    Chilton
    Wood
    Troughton

    Don't know anything about those last 5 names. Any other names? Any really talents in the U19 setup? Any sleepers like Vaughn hiding out in the counties?
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  3. #18
    International Debutant iamdavid's Avatar
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    Ian Bell has clearly got huge potential , but he needs to score county runs & ATM he aint doing that .

    Troughton has footwork problems to match Smith's , he dosent get the back foot across to cover his stumps & I notice a little movement away from his stumps before the bowlers let the ball go :O :O :O (the commentators actually noticed this aswell in the Natwest series) , its almost like he's backing away.

    Solanki has an awful lot of talent but he needs to tighten his technique up just a bit , also he simply isnt making FC runs ATM which is a must.
    On flat tracks he can be murderous but ATM he just dosent look up to it when the ball is moving , nothing he cant fix.

    Others who could come into the mix , Nic Pothas I beleive has intentions to play for England , if neither Jones nor Read are the answer then posibly he could fill a Stewart like role.

    Kevin Pieterson has shown on the county circuit that he has massive potential & is all but certain to fill one of those spots.

  4. #19
    International Debutant V Reddy's Avatar
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    My picks

    Pietersen- Very talented but is doubtful whether he will succeed in tests.

    Shah - I thought he was treated unfairly and has it in him to do well in tests.

    Wood - Only seen a little of him but looked very good to me

    Solanki - Clone of Sehwag. Always inconsistent , terribly talented and always need to be talked to by his batting partner to curb some of his shots and have patience.

    Haven't seen but heard highly about these players

    Shafayat

    Bell


  5. #20
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Originally posted by iamdavid
    As for the keeping I really agree with Johny that they cant afford to stick with Read to much longer , Jones keeping by all reports is perfectly competent , even if not quite in the Read mold , his batting however is a class above & I reckon the sooner they stick him in at 6 the better.
    Even though he bats at 7 usually for Kent?

    Him at 7 following Flintoff may be more solid though (with Giles at 8)

    Originally posted by iamdavid
    On the matter of a replacement , I reckon Mark Wagh from Warwickshire could make a decent fist of it (not just because of his name )
    Interesting call. As a Warwickshire fan, and one who first saw Wagh at the age of about 14 (incidentally on a day when Aus hit 600+ for 4 into the 3rd morning of the Test, how times have changed!) I may be a bit biased, but I do think he is an option (also bowls a bit of off spin)
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  6. #21
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Originally posted by JohnnyA
    Collingwood - good one-day player ... no more from what he's shown
    You reckon? I'd say he showed a lot of bottle in those 2 matches, and I feel that he should be in the side now (although I think he would be but for that injury in the summer)

  7. #22
    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by marc71178
    You reckon? I'd say he showed a lot of bottle in those 2 matches, and I feel that he should be in the side now (although I think he would be but for that injury in the summer)
    Yes but for a test match England should be looking for players that can score big runs against good bowling, not just make dependable 30's and 40's (which might be okay for the One day game).. He will pick up wickets too, but wouldnt consider him an allrounder, more a batsman who bowls..
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  8. #23
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Originally posted by JohnnyA
    Trescothick: I thought after the "bad light" debacle of the fourth test match against SA, and the committed match winning effort that followed, that we had seen a change in Trescothick. No such luck. He has immediately reverted to the mediocre and unreliable batsman we all know and love, which is a shame, because his talent is much more than the flashy 30's-70's he scores. He refuses to commit himself to scoring match winning innings, and is symptomatic of the malaise that has dogged English cricket for 20 years.
    Trescothick has never been a Test-class player for mine. Simply had a load of luck. If you get rid of the Bangladesh games and ignore the match at The Oval he has scored 4 fifties in 25 Test innings (no hundreds). Finally, he has been exposed.
    Vaughn: England's only world class player. But he seems to have completely forgotten what it means to build an innings. He would do well to analyse the 7 centuries he scored in 2002. He would find that he started all of those innings slowly and gradually built up the momentum. Nice to see England are putting all that technology to good use.
    If he analysed the centuries he scored in 2002 (and his comments suggest he did, to his eternal credit) he'd notice he had a not-inconsiderable amount of luck in 4 out of 6. He said "I've had a bit of luck, been dropped quite a few times". Most people, customarily, neglect that fact. He played no differently in 2003. Since New Zealand at the start of 2002, since being made to open, he has tried to score too fast for a Test opener against decent bowling. In 2003 he has had little luck, and has scored 3 centuries in 20 proper Test-innings, plus a half. Move him back to number-four, you'll see the best of him.
    Butcher: Time's up Butch. Sorry, you're just not up to the task of England's number 3. Another in the Trescothick mould: looks good, then unconscionably gets out. He keeps reminding us about his 40 batting average over the last year and a half. Is that as good as it gets? A batting average of 40 is your peak years? Are these the standards out cricketers are setting for themselves? I always fear drinks breaks or delays in play when Butch is at the crease ... any break in concentration seem to lead to his demise.
    Butcher is better opening than at three IMO anyway, but he has shown many times that he can score runs at three too. He was the best batsman last summer, and has basically been consistency personnified since his recall at Edgbaston 2001. Wait for West Indies; he'll be back in the runs, believe me. He has played many knocks pivotal to the outcome of the match in England's favour; he gets out poorly sometimes, wow. So does everyone. An average like Butcher's over that period, peak years or not, is impressive.
    Hussain: Nasser is a player of ordinary talent who has succeeded by sheer bloody minded determination. England's best captain in 20 years. But as a player, one feels the fire is gone, and there isn't much talent to fall back on. At 34/35, the curtain must surely be brought down on Nasser's career after the Windies series.
    For me this is a load of scaremongering. Nasser has had two bad matches recently; he too has been consistency personnified since the start of the 2001 season and logic suggests he'll be back scoring runs in the not-too-distant future.
    Thorpe: England's best batsman over the past 10 years. But at 35 years of age will be lucky to reach the heights he previously scaled. England will need a veteran presence in the centre of their middle order as they rebuild. Thorpe has to be the fulcrum they build around. At 35, he hasn't much time left, and neither do England.
    I still believe Thorpey has plenty left in him.
    Flintoff: IMO he must become Englandís bowling all rounder and bat 7. Sad to say, but if England are to succeed, Flintoff must become England 3rd fast bowler, and bat at 7. Number 6 in the batting line-up is crucial. It requires a player (like the number 3) who can play both defensively and offensively depending on what the match situation dictates. Number 6 is often required to score quick runs, other times to shepherd the tail, other times to rebuild the innings after the loss of early wickets. Flintoff is not equipped for this role IMO. He must bat at 7 and be allowed to express himself freely, or else England will be scoring no more than 250 runs per inning.
    I don't rate Flintoff as bowler or batsman, never have made any secret of it, not much has happened to change my opinion. He had a good series against South Africa and somehow got away with a bit of slogging at The SSC. Whether he bats five, six, seven or eight, I don't think he'll ever score many runs against decent bowling. As for his bowling, just look at his average and remember that the last series was the first time it went down in God knows how long.
    Read: Excellent wicket keeper, but looks massively out of his depth with the bat, to the extent that Gareth Batty has overtaken him in the line-up. England do not have enough batting talent and they carry too much of a tail to afford a non-batting wicket keeper. Read is a luxury England must discard. IMO the opportunity exists for a fringe England batsman who is competent with the gloves to take over this role. One wonders why someone like John Crawley doesn't try and turn himself into a wicket keeping all-rounder. Can it be that hard to catch the damn ball?
    For me England have someone who is almost a ready-made replacement for Stewart in Geirant Jones. I can't believe he's quite as good a batsman as Stewie, but he can't be far behind. His wicketkeeping isn't as good as Read's but I can't believe it's not up to international standard. Why the hell anyone could possibly consider Read a better cricketer than Jones is completely beyond me.
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  9. #24
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    For me England have someone who is almost a ready-made replacement for Stewart in Geirant Jones. I can't believe he's quite as good a batsman as Stewie, but he can't be far behind. His wicketkeeping isn't as good as Read's but I can't believe it's not up to international standard. Why the hell anyone could possibly consider Read a better cricketer than Jones is completely beyond me.
    Because Read has proven himself a solid option for several seasons and Geraint Jones has not?
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  10. #25
    Soutie Langeveldt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Mr Mxyzptlk
    Because Read has proven himself a solid option for several seasons and Geraint Jones has not?
    By doing what? Scoring loads of runs in England colours?

  11. #26
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    Originally posted by Richard
    Trescothick has never been a Test-class player for mine. Simply had a load of luck. If you get rid of the Bangladesh games and ignore the match at The Oval he has scored 4 fifties in 25 Test innings (no hundreds). Finally, he has been exposed.

    If he analysed the centuries he scored in 2002 (and his comments suggest he did, to his eternal credit) he'd notice he had a not-inconsiderable amount of luck in 4 out of 6. He said "I've had a bit of luck, been dropped quite a few times". Most people, customarily, neglect that fact. He played no differently in 2003. Since New Zealand at the start of 2002, since being made to open, he has tried to score too fast for a Test opener against decent bowling. In 2003 he has had little luck, and has scored 3 centuries in 20 proper Test-innings, plus a half. Move him back to number-four, you'll see the best of him.
    So both of them have averaged in the mid to late 40's for a considerable time now, and have just been lucky? Yes, lucky if they've played 5 tests, not lucky if played 30 to 40. The luck will even itself out over that period of time.
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  12. #27
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    Trescothick has never been a Test-class player for mine. Simply had a load of luck. If you get rid of the Bangladesh games and ignore the match at The Oval he has scored 4 fifties in 25 Test innings (no hundreds). Finally, he has been exposed
    You cannot knock out innings just because they don't suit your theory - how many times will you try and do it?

  13. #28
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    As for his bowling, just look at his average and remember that the last series was the first time it went down in God knows how long.
    For crying out loud - he was far and away England's best fast bowler in the recent series, and his average and Eco were superb.

    He has been an incredibly unlucky bowler in the past year, as many experts have commented.

    Credit where credit is due.

  14. #29
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Richard
    For me England have someone who is almost a ready-made replacement for Stewart in Geirant Jones. I can't believe he's quite as good a batsman as Stewie, but he can't be far behind.
    So good that he bats at 7 for his County Side?

    I believe that was below Ealham, who never looked anything better than a number 8 (7 at a big push) for England.

    And you think he could bat 6 in Tests? OK...

  15. #30
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    Originally posted by Richard
    Trescothick has never been a Test-class player for mine. Simply had a load of luck. If you get rid of the Bangladesh games and ignore the match at The Oval he has scored 4 fifties in 25 Test innings (no hundreds). Finally, he has been exposed.
    Erm, no he hasn't. You've got it wrong. Remember his 161 against Sri Lanka in 2002? There are probably many more-just can't remember them

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