The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[ankitj]

If you are picking team of decade , there should be a qualification that the player has been active for at least half the decade. Or should have played a test in at least 5 or 6 different calendar years.

 

[Logan]

Cook and Warner have same strike rate?!!

My bad. Cook has a SR of 46 and Warner has a SR of 76.

 

[vcs]

These "Team of the Decade" exercises penalize players whose peak lies in the end of one decade and the early part of the next.

 

[stephen]

If you are picking team of decade , there should be a qualification that the player has been active for at least half the decade. Or should have played a test in at least 5 or 6 different calendar years.

It's funny because as of now, Cummins has better career stats than Colin Croft. The same wickets in less tests at a better average and strike rate with a longer career.

Scheduling inflation has really devalued the "number of wickets taken" and "total runs scored" stats hasn't it?

 

[Spark]

These "Team of the Decade" exercises penalize players whose peak lies in the end of one decade and the early part of the next.

Arbitrary cutoffs imposing weird cutoff effects shocker. It's still a fun exercise IMO.

 

[marc71178]

All these lists of the decade show that Jadeja is still massively under-rated by everyone. He has been the best all-rounder in this decade and still not even considered in anyone's team.

Warner, Cook, Williamson, Kohli, Smith, Shakib, Jadeja, Dhoni, Cummins, Steyn, Anderson will be my team. 3 pacers, 2 spinners and genuine batting upto 9.

I'm calling bull**** on that claim.

 

[CricAddict]

I'm calling bull**** on that claim.

It is between Shakib, Jadeja and Stokes. Stokes does play a once in a lifetime innings every 30 innings and gets everyone in awe of him including me, but Shakib and Jadeja have been more consistent with both bat and ball. Stats are not everything but they do tell a story. This decade,

Shakib averages 42 with the bat and 32 with the ball
Jadeja averages 36 with the bat and 24 with the ball
Stokes averages 36 with the bat and 32 with the ball.

So, it is actually between Shakib and Jadeja. I had taken both of them in my team. Being a Jadeja fan, that bowling average of 24 swayed my thoughts towards him while others might look at Shakib's batting average and tell he is the decade's best. Fans of Stokes will ignore the stats and say that he is the best based on some of his brilliant innings. So, to each their own. There is no bull**** here.

View overall figures
Start of match date greater than or equal to 21 Nov 2009
Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 20 and runs scored greater than or equal to 1000 and wickets taken greater than or equal to 75
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 16 of 16
Overall figures
Player Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff
Shakib Al Hasan (BDESH) 2010-2019 42 3147 217 42.52 5 162 6/33 31.97 13 16 0 10.55
BA Stokes (ENG) 2013-2019 58 3660 258 36.23 8 135 6/22 32.71 4 59 0 3.52
RA Jadeja (INDIA) 2012-2019 47 1832 100* 35.92 1 211 7/48 24.58 9 33 0 11.33
JO Holder (WI) 2014-2019 39 1887 202* 33.10 3 101 6/59 27.26 6 31 0 5.83
MM Ali (ENG) 2014-2019 60 2782 155* 28.97 5 181 6/53 36.59 5 32 0 -7.61
R Ashwin (INDIA) 2011-2019 69 2376 124 28.97 4 362 7/59 25.31 27 24 0 3.66
CR Woakes (ENG) 2013-2019 31 1145 137* 27.92 1 88 6/17 31.29 3 12 0 -3.36
VD Philander (SA) 2011-2019 60 1619 74 24.16 0 216 6/21 22.16 13 17 0 2.00
MA Starc (AUS) 2011-2019 53 1434 99 22.76 0 219 6/50 27.98 11 26 0 -5.22
GP Swann (ENG) 2009-2013 48 1016 85 19.53 0 207 6/65 29.86 15 47 0 -10.33
MG Johnson (AUS) 2009-2015 47 1266 92* 18.89 0 199 7/40 28.17 9 21 0 -9.28
TG Southee (NZ) 2009-2019 63 1484 68 18.32 0 240 7/64 29.07 7 47 0 -10.74
MDK Perera (SL) 2014-2019 39 1139 95 18.07 0 156 6/32 34.03 8 19 0 -15.95
SCJ Broad (ENG) 2009-2019 111 2382 169 17.01 1 403 8/15 27.54 14 37 0 -10.52
HMRKB Herath (SL) 2009-2018 74 1520 80* 15.67 0 371 9/127 26.81 31 20 0 -11.14
NM Lyon (AUS) 2011-2019 92 1003 47 12.23 0 364 8/50 32.32 15 43 0 -20.09

 

[CricAddict]

Frankly speaking, looking at that list, this decade has been pretty poor in terms of all-rounders and openers while having awesome middle order batsmen and pace bowlers.

 

[kyear2]

Frankly speaking, looking at that list, this decade has been pretty poor in terms of all-rounders and openers while having awesome middle order batsmen and pace bowlers.

Most decades and eras to be honest

 

[h_hurricane]

It is between Shakib, Jadeja and Stokes. Stokes does play a once in a lifetime innings every 30 innings and gets everyone in awe of him including me, but Shakib and Jadeja have been more consistent with both bat and ball. Stats are not everything but they do tell a story. This decade,

Shakib averages 42 with the bat and 32 with the ball
Jadeja averages 36 with the bat and 24 with the ball
Stokes averages 36 with the bat and 32 with the ball.

So, it is actually between Shakib and Jadeja. I had taken both of them in my team. Being a Jadeja fan, that bowling average of 24 swayed my thoughts towards him while others might look at Shakib's batting average and tell he is the decade's best. Fans of Stokes will ignore the stats and say that he is the best based on some of his brilliant innings. So, to each their own. There is no bull**** here.

View overall figures
Start of match date greater than or equal to 21 Nov 2009
Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 20 and runs scored greater than or equal to 1000 and wickets taken greater than or equal to 75
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 16 of 16
Overall figures
Player Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff
Shakib Al Hasan (BDESH) 2010-2019 42 3147 217 42.52 5 162 6/33 31.97 13 16 0 10.55
BA Stokes (ENG) 2013-2019 58 3660 258 36.23 8 135 6/22 32.71 4 59 0 3.52
RA Jadeja (INDIA) 2012-2019 47 1832 100* 35.92 1 211 7/48 24.58 9 33 0 11.33
JO Holder (WI) 2014-2019 39 1887 202* 33.10 3 101 6/59 27.26 6 31 0 5.83
MM Ali (ENG) 2014-2019 60 2782 155* 28.97 5 181 6/53 36.59 5 32 0 -7.61
R Ashwin (INDIA) 2011-2019 69 2376 124 28.97 4 362 7/59 25.31 27 24 0 3.66
CR Woakes (ENG) 2013-2019 31 1145 137* 27.92 1 88 6/17 31.29 3 12 0 -3.36
VD Philander (SA) 2011-2019 60 1619 74 24.16 0 216 6/21 22.16 13 17 0 2.00
MA Starc (AUS) 2011-2019 53 1434 99 22.76 0 219 6/50 27.98 11 26 0 -5.22
GP Swann (ENG) 2009-2013 48 1016 85 19.53 0 207 6/65 29.86 15 47 0 -10.33
MG Johnson (AUS) 2009-2015 47 1266 92* 18.89 0 199 7/40 28.17 9 21 0 -9.28
TG Southee (NZ) 2009-2019 63 1484 68 18.32 0 240 7/64 29.07 7 47 0 -10.74
MDK Perera (SL) 2014-2019 39 1139 95 18.07 0 156 6/32 34.03 8 19 0 -15.95
SCJ Broad (ENG) 2009-2019 111 2382 169 17.01 1 403 8/15 27.54 14 37 0 -10.52
HMRKB Herath (SL) 2009-2018 74 1520 80* 15.67 0 371 9/127 26.81 31 20 0 -11.14
NM Lyon (AUS) 2011-2019 92 1003 47 12.23 0 364 8/50 32.32 15 43 0 -20.09

The below saying goes extremely well with Jadeja.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

 

[honestbharani]

the below saying goes extremely well with jadeja.

"first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you sword dance."

ftfy

 

[Red]

Not much point selecting Jadeja in a team of the decade unless you're gonna play all the tests in India.

 

[Burgey]

People need to follow the unwritten rule, that if you’re picking more than one spinner in a “Team of” or ATXI, you’re doing it wrong.

 

[Coronis]

It is between Shakib, Jadeja and Stokes. Stokes does play a once in a lifetime innings every 30 innings and gets everyone in awe of him including me, but Shakib and Jadeja have been more consistent with both bat and ball. Stats are not everything but they do tell a story. This decade,

Shakib averages 42 with the bat and 32 with the ball
Jadeja averages 36 with the bat and 24 with the ball
Stokes averages 36 with the bat and 32 with the ball.

So, it is actually between Shakib and Jadeja. I had taken both of them in my team. Being a Jadeja fan, that bowling average of 24 swayed my thoughts towards him while others might look at Shakib's batting average and tell he is the decade's best. Fans of Stokes will ignore the stats and say that he is the best based on some of his brilliant innings. So, to each their own. There is no bull**** here.

View overall figures
Start of match date greater than or equal to 21 Nov 2009
Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 20 and runs scored greater than or equal to 1000 and wickets taken greater than or equal to 75
Ordered by batting average (descending)
Page 1 of 1 Showing 1 - 16 of 16
Overall figures
Player Span Mat Runs HS Bat Av 100 Wkts BBI Bowl Av 5 Ct St Ave Diff
Shakib Al Hasan (BDESH) 2010-2019 42 3147 217 42.52 5 162 6/33 31.97 13 16 0 10.55
BA Stokes (ENG) 2013-2019 58 3660 258 36.23 8 135 6/22 32.71 4 59 0 3.52
RA Jadeja (INDIA) 2012-2019 47 1832 100* 35.92 1 211 7/48 24.58 9 33 0 11.33
JO Holder (WI) 2014-2019 39 1887 202* 33.10 3 101 6/59 27.26 6 31 0 5.83
MM Ali (ENG) 2014-2019 60 2782 155* 28.97 5 181 6/53 36.59 5 32 0 -7.61
R Ashwin (INDIA) 2011-2019 69 2376 124 28.97 4 362 7/59 25.31 27 24 0 3.66
CR Woakes (ENG) 2013-2019 31 1145 137* 27.92 1 88 6/17 31.29 3 12 0 -3.36
VD Philander (SA) 2011-2019 60 1619 74 24.16 0 216 6/21 22.16 13 17 0 2.00
MA Starc (AUS) 2011-2019 53 1434 99 22.76 0 219 6/50 27.98 11 26 0 -5.22
GP Swann (ENG) 2009-2013 48 1016 85 19.53 0 207 6/65 29.86 15 47 0 -10.33
MG Johnson (AUS) 2009-2015 47 1266 92* 18.89 0 199 7/40 28.17 9 21 0 -9.28
TG Southee (NZ) 2009-2019 63 1484 68 18.32 0 240 7/64 29.07 7 47 0 -10.74
MDK Perera (SL) 2014-2019 39 1139 95 18.07 0 156 6/32 34.03 8 19 0 -15.95
SCJ Broad (ENG) 2009-2019 111 2382 169 17.01 1 403 8/15 27.54 14 37 0 -10.52
HMRKB Herath (SL) 2009-2018 74 1520 80* 15.67 0 371 9/127 26.81 31 20 0 -11.14
NM Lyon (AUS) 2011-2019 92 1003 47 12.23 0 364 8/50 32.32 15 43 0 -20.09

So what I’m reading here is Jadeja has one century (barely) and less than 2000 runs in almost 50 matches, barely qualifying as an AR. And despite playing in less tests and taking less wickets than Jadeja Shakib has taken the same amount of 5’fers in the decade as Jadeja + Stokes.

 

[Burgey]

It's interesting to compare the number of spinning allrounders considered worthy of discussion in "Best of" type sides compared with seam bowling allrounders. You've got the likes of Jadeja, Shakib and Ashwin atm in line for the team of this decade, but looking through other eras, how many are there? Going back to the 50s and 60s there was obviously Benaud, and Sobers bowled everything as and when required. But I can't think of too many since the 70s at least up to now. Maybe that's because the discussion surrounding ARs focuses on the 80s greats, who were all quicks. We had Mo in the 80s who wasnt' quite up to it withe h ball at test level, but was a genuine test level batsman, but not many others. I'm not including part time spinners like TOTAB or your Mark Waughs. I mean blokes who were genuinely picked as spinning ARs. Anyway, just a thought i had.

 

[stephen]

It's hard to argue Jadeja with a straight face when he has spent so much time carrying the drinks and has only been trundler out in friendly conditions. It's hard to argue Shakib when he skips unfriendly tests. It's hard to argue stokes when he should be in prison.

Shakib edges it even if he did go entirely missing on the South Africa tour.

 

[stephen]

It's interesting to compare the number of spinning allrounders considered worthy of discussion in "Best of" type sides compared with seam bowling allrounders. You've got the likes of Jadeja, Shakib and Ashwin atm in line for the team of this decade, but looking through other eras, how many are there? Going back to the 50s and 60s there was obviously Benaud, and Sobers bowled everything as and when required. But I can't think of too many since the 70s at least up to now. Maybe that's because the discussion surrounding ARs focuses on the 80s greats, who were all quicks. We had Mo in the 80s who wasnt' quite up to it withe h ball at test level, but was a genuine test level batsman, but not many others. I'm not including part time spinners like TOTAB or your Mark Waughs. I mean blokes who were genuinely picked as spinning ARs. Anyway, just a thought i had.

It'll probably happen more often in the coming years with the rise in prominence of subcontinental cricket and the diminishing West Indies.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah that may well be the case, but I don't know that there were all that many of them even back in the pre-war era were there? You tended to have your spinners being specialists whereas your ARs were seamers. It might be because your spinners are expected to bowl bulk overs so you lean more towards a specialist, whereas an AR is sometimes picked to be the third or fourth quick and bowl yer 10-12 a day sort of thing.

 

[ataraxia]

It'll probably happen more often in the coming years with the rise in prominence of subcontinental cricket and the diminishing West Indies.

And WI being more conducive to spin.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

And WI being more conducive to spin.

Not really a new thing though, WI domestic pitches have been absolutely diabolical for years. If anything they have gotten slightly less worse in the last couple of years, but you still see plenty of unremarkable spinners taking wickets by the bucketload