The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Dan]

North
1. Hobbs
2. Hutton
3. Sangakkara
4. Tendulkar
5. Richards
6. Sobers (5)
7. Imran * (3)
8. Wasim (2)
9. Evans +
10. Larwood (1)
11. Muralitharan (4)

12. Marshall

South
1. Mitchell
2. Morris
3. Bradman
4. Kallis (6)
5. Miller (5)
6. Waugh *
7. Gilchrist +
8. Procter (3)
9. Hadlee (2)
10. Warne (4)
11. McGrath (1)

12. Lillee

 

[Howe_zat]

9. Evans +

hey look i'm different

 

[fredfertang]

How can you put Barry Richards in over all the other Australian openers, based on 4 tests?

Overused word "great", but not where Barry Richards is concerned

 

[Coronis]

Overused word "great", but not where Barry Richards is concerned

4 tests though, I know he was a great batsmen, but when we're talking about an ATG Southern Hemisphere XI there are so many other more proven options, if we're talking about a test XI.

 

[OverratedSanity]

4 tests though, I know he was a great batsmen, but when we're talking about an ATG Southern Hemisphere XI there are so many other more proven options, if we're talking about a test XI.

Wasn't specified. Richards is fair game.

 

[honestbharani]

Why not pick touring squads of 15 for each nation and see which one is the best for all conditions.. I am not asking for the XIs to be selected right now but imagine the series to be held across the world starting with the pace and bounce of Durban and then to the swing and seam of Headingley to the runs and more runs of Adelaide Oval to the rough and dry reverse swing heaven of Lahore and then finishing up at the dustbowl of Eden Gardens.... I will give a shot for the Indian XV..


Sunil Gavaskar
Virender Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
VVS Laxman
Kapil Dev
MS Dhoni (wk) (c)
Anil Kumble
BIshen Bedi
Erapalli Prasanna / Harbhajan Singh
Zaheer Khan
Mohammed Nissar
Javagal Srinath
Farook Engineer (sp?)
Gundappa Vishwanath

 

[fredfertang]

4 tests though, I know he was a great batsmen, but when we're talking about an ATG Southern Hemisphere XI there are so many other more proven options, if we're talking about a test XI.

Don't forget Exhibit B - three WSC supertests at age 33 when he averaged 77.60

 

[watson]

I was rather more startled by the presence of Bill Lawry.

Having made a stack of runs against Hall and Griffith, Trueman and Statham, Snow and Pollock he seemed better than most other options at handling Imran, Matshall, Ambrose.

Morris made most of his runs sgainst Bedser but folded when Tyson and Statham came along to assist. Poor against Tayfield so not a hope against Murali.

Hayden was dropped shortly after failing against Ambrose and Walsh. Admittedly early in his career.

Bruce Mitchell batted against Wall, Farnes, Voce, Tate, and Bedser, but I'm almost sure that he missed out on Larwood. Again unproven.

And you can go on. Simpson is s viable option I guess, but Lawry had more strokes, plus the left-right combo is always preferable.

The problem with Lawry is that he will be forever tainted because of that disasterous tour of South Aftica against Procter in absolute peak form. Seems unfair to me.

 

[Red]

I find it difficult to understand why people don't rate Bill Lawry. There are more reasons to consider him Australia's greatest opener than not.

 

[Red]

Re-do

South

B. Richards
B. Lawry
D, Bradman *
G. Chappell
K. Miller
A. Border
A. Gilchrist +
R. Hadlee
S. Warne
B. O'Reilly/D. Steyn
G. McGrath

North

L. Hutton
S. Gavaskar
K. Sangakkara
S. Tendulkar
V. Richards
G. Sobers
I. Khan *
A. Knott +
W. Akram
M. Marshall
M. Muralitharan

 

[Red]

hey look i'm different

It's not that out there. Evans was probably the best keeper of all time, and a handy batsman.

 

[Zinzan]

All-time SA/SL combined vs. NZ/Aus combined ODI XIs

SA/SL comb
Jayasuriya 7
Amla
Sangakkara+
Kallis 6
de villiers*
de Silva
Klusener 5
Pollock 2
Steyn 1
Murali 4
Donald 3


Aus/NZ comb

Turner
Gilchrist+
Williamson 7
Ponting*
Hussey
Bevan 6
Symonds/Cairns 5
Hadlee 2
Warne/Vettori 4
Bond/Lee 3
McGrath 1

SL/SA combined wins for me... their players compliment each-other really well.

Apologies for my lack of certainty with some of the Aus/NZ players. Symonds is the better batsman than Cairns, but slightly weaker with the ball, Vettori is possibly fractionally behind Warne in ODIs, although is actually more economical in spite of having played after Warne. And perhaps I'm biased thinking Bond might edge out Lee, because Lee was a very fine ODI bowler.

 

[AldoRaine18]

I'm assuming that is ODIs?

Ind/Pak - ODIs

Tendulkar
Anwar
Kohli
Abbas
Yuvraj
Dhoni+
Kapil
Akram
Waqar
Saqlain
Akhtar

 

[harsh.ag]

It's not that out there. Evans was probably the best keeper of all time, and a handy batsman.

No he isn't. Usually I am very flexible about things like "he is better than others", but this is just wrong. He wasn't even the best keeper of his generation. Bob Taylor's mentor, Keith Andrew was the best glove-man of their time and Evans was the first selection for England because of his batting.

And if you're going for the keeping-batting combo, might as well go for Knott.

 

[Zinzan]

I'm assuming that is ODIs?

Ind/Pak - ODIs

Tendulkar
Anwar
Kohli
Abbas
Yuvraj
Dhoni+
Kapil
Akram
Waqar
Saqlain
Akhtar

Haha, yeah ODIs & not T20s, so Imran >> Yuvraj :P. Wouldn't really matter the order of Imran/Dhoni & Kapil at 5'6 & 7 since it's a strong middle order.

 

[AldoRaine18]

Haha, yeah ODIs & not T20s, so Imran >> Yuvraj :P. Wouldn't really matter the order of Imran/Dhoni & Kapil at 5'6 & 7 since it's a strong middle order.

Yuvraj and Dhoni are a proven combo, plus Yuvraj was MVP in 2011.

 

[harsh.ag]

Bruce Mitchell batted against Wall, Farnes, Voce, Tate, and Bedser, but I'm almost sure that he missed out on Larwood. Again unproven.

And you can go on. Simpson is s viable option I guess, but Lawry had more strokes, plus the left-right combo is always preferable.

The bold doesn't make any sense. Played well against all those bowlers means proven.Missing out on 1 bowler proves nothing.

The underlined is not true at all.

Though I agree Lawry is a strong candidate and a good choice. There isn't a need to denigrate the others along the way.

 

[Zinzan]

Yuvraj and Dhoni are a proven combo, plus Yuvraj was MVP in 2011.

Imran was MVP for a decade.

 

[AldoRaine18]

Imran was MVP for a decade.

Eh?

Yuvraj is incredibly valuable to any ODI team for the same reasons Mark Waugh is. Quality batsman, top tier fielder and a very useful bowler. I have four seamers already, don't need a fifth, though I can do with someone bowling in tandem with Saqlain on a slow track.

You can pick Imran if you want, to each his own.

 

[ankitj]

I'm assuming that is ODIs?

Ind/Pak - ODIs

Tendulkar
Anwar
Kohli
Abbas
Yuvraj
Dhoni+
Kapil
Akram
Waqar
Saqlain
Akhtar

Arvinda deSilva / Inzamam ul-Haq above Yuvraj.