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  • Tendulkar

    18 62.07%
  • Sanga

    11 37.93%
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Thread: How good is Sanga?

  1. #271
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPlex View Post
    What do people think it takes to be a genuine all rounder?

    A batting average of over 25 and bowling average of under 40 with your secondary skill IMO.
    Batting average of 30 plus, bowling average of around (or under) 30 for an ATG AR IMO.

    Variations on that depending on the needs of the team.

  2. #272
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPlex View Post
    What do people think it takes to be a genuine all rounder?

    A batting average of over 25 and bowling average of under 40 with your secondary skill IMO.
    A lot more than that, good enough to perform with both disciplines at the same time and justify a spot.
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  3. #273
    International Vice-Captain watson's Avatar
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    If you're playing your allrounder at Nos 1-6 then a batting average of around 40 plus and a bowling average of around 30 or less is more or less required.

    If batting at No. 7 or 8 then a batting average of 25-35 is OK, but the bowling average must be below 30 at least.

    For an ATG team.

    (These figures are relative to the era the allrounder was playing in of course)
    Last edited by watson; 23-07-2012 at 04:06 PM.
    Tendulkar - M.Waugh - Ponting - Richards - Dhoni - Bevan - Kapil Dev - Hadlee - Akram - Garner - Muralitharan

  4. #274
    International Debutant Viscount Tom's Avatar
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    Except he doesn't want to be.
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  5. #275
    International Captain ankitj's Avatar
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    South Africa in England 2012: Jacques Kallis underappreciated no longer | Cricket Features | England v South Africa | ESPN Cricinfo

    Kallis is gun. We have to stop clutching straws with him. I ranked him at 13 in the last cw50 exercise and I believe he deserved that totally.

  6. #276
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    And yet that same formula has proven successful for a long time for them, and was also the formula adapted by the 2 most successful sides of all time. So how unwise is it actually?
    Been giving this a lot of though and I must admit that you are right, while it is not a hinderence to have a Sobers, Kallis or Imran, having a great all rounder has not really been a feature of the greatest teams with the exception of South Africa and Barlow.
    What forced Sobers to be a great all rounder was the lack of quality bolwers at varying parts of his career and the importance of a great bowling all rounder is amplified by the weaknesses of their top order. Great teams for the most part were defined by great bowlers and strong batting line ups while it was the otherwise weaker teams that required the services of All Rounders.
    I still think that it is good for team balance to have that good fifth bowler, but history says other wise.

    The one theory that I have though that history does back up is that most of the great teams did have great cordons, and so from a winning perspective they seem to hold a greater importance than traditional all rounders. This can be a mere coincidence, but it is there, so ...................

    The key though is to gain these additional qualities with out loosing or taking away from the quality batsmen or bowlers who makes the team great.
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  7. #277
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Sorry guys, but to digress once again to my fav pet peeve, Cook's drop cost England a century by Pieterson today, and highlights the importance of having a settled and excellent cordon.Everyone will drop one from time to time (though he somewhat made up for it soon after with a blinder) but that one was a sitter that any regular slipper should have taken.
    Last edited by kyear2; 02-08-2012 at 06:49 PM.

  8. #278
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Yeah, definitely agree. You can't just throw good fielders into slip and expect them to be good slippers, plenty of examples where that's failed over the years.
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  9. #279
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Sorry guys, but to digress once again to my fav pet peeve, Cook's drop cost England a century by Pieterson today, and highlights the importance of having a settled and excellent cordon.Everyone will drop one from time to time (though he somewhat made up for it soon after with a blinder) but that one was a sitter that any regular slipper should have taken.
    what if the catch had gone down in the covers?
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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  10. #280
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Yeah, definitely agree. You can't just throw good fielders into slip and expect them to be good slippers, plenty of examples where that's failed over the years.
    I reckon most very good fielders are also good slippers. Using Australians as an example-

    Mark Waugh
    Ricky Ponting
    Allan Border

    (and also guys like Viv, Clive Lloyd, AB DeVil)

    have all been excellent fielders, and also excellent slippers.

    Some guys, like Taylor, Hayden and Warne, have been excellent (or at least good) slippers, but pretty average fielders.

  11. #281
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    They were slippers as well as fielders, though, not makeshift slippers just because they were good fielders. The most obvious Australian examples I can think of are Symonds and Clarke (though Clarke is much better nowadays), and lately Watson.

    Of course, some people are just absolute freaks (MWaugh, ABdV)

  12. #282
    International Vice-Captain Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    They were slippers as well as fielders, though, not makeshift slippers just because they were good fielders. The most obvious Australian examples I can think of are Symonds and Clarke (though Clarke is much better nowadays), and lately Watson.

    Of course, some people are just absolute freaks (MWaugh, ABdV)
    True. I reckon Symonds would have made a great slipper in a similar way to Viv (I cant recall Symonds ever being in the slips, but he may have been), and I reckon Watson is a pretty crap fielder whether he is in the cordon or the ring or the outfield. He has no flexibility, and no gracefulness. Just robotic.

  13. #283
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Symonds was in the slips for a few Tests, and dropped about as many as he caught. Was bad.

    Watson's a good ring fielder tbh. Excellent hands.

  14. #284
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyear2 View Post
    Sorry guys, but to digress once again to my fav pet peeve, Cook's drop cost England a century by Pieterson today, and highlights the importance of having a settled and excellent cordon.Everyone will drop one from time to time (though he somewhat made up for it soon after with a blinder) but that one was a sitter that any regular slipper should have taken.
    That's all well and good but what do they do if the regular isn't there for whatever reason, leave a gap?

  15. #285
    International Regular kyear2's Avatar
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    Bell and Cook has been tried in the slips to less than stellar results recently, while everyone is saying how good Trott is and he is a specilaist. Additionally don't over react and drop one of your most important players after one bad match, he is important to the lower order batting, his slip fielding and of course his bowling, Finn for Bresnam would have made more sense.

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