Ranking the great fast bowlers

[doesitmatter]

again the batsman in gilly is making you say that he is a lock and the point i am making is for pure WK-ing reasons Knott and Healy are a lock..btw during Healy's time Aussies were as dominant except that Taylor's Aussies had the tendency to lose dead rubber's...IMO without Gilly 2K Aussies would have been as dominant as they were with him..plus if you do a side by side comparison of the crucial innings played by Healy and Gilchrist it would be same and Healy might come ahead as well because of the kinda attack he faced..so Healy or Knott for me..

 

[smash84]

He played his home matches in a country where except for the SCG, all of the pitches are prepared with pace in mind and possibly the most difficult pitches to bowl spin, compared to bowling at home on made to order turners. He was also one of the two main keys on one of the three greatest teams in history while changing the rules of the game and contributing with his slip fielding and his lower order batting. For me he will always be the second bowler put down on my AT team behind the incomparable Marshall and the only two guarenteed of a place.

Quite unfair really. How come SL batsmen are then labeled as FTBs if Murali bowled on raging turners all the time and got his wickets because every slouch could bowl well on those wickets?

 

[akilana]

it wasn't unfair. it was a bad post. murali had outbowled warne in england, nz, pakistan, wi and bangaladesh. i didnt know they had prepared pitches to help murali.

 

[kyear2]

So kindly explain the 8 run difference in average and the 11 ball difference in s/r btwn his home and away performances.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Quite unfair really. How come SL batsmen are then labeled as FTBs if Murali bowled on raging turners all the time and got his wickets because every slouch could bowl well on those wickets?

This. If you give Warne so much credit for his home bowling record, then you can't also use it to detract from Murali's. How many other spinners were as obscenely successful as Murali on those pitches?

 

[wellAlbidarned]

So kindly explain the 8 run difference in average and the 11 ball difference in s/r btwn his home and away performances.

He bowled obscenely well at home, and merely very well away? It's not like his stats suddenly become awful for away games.

EDIT: sorry mods, just realised the thread title, massive derailing. Stopping now.

 

[Red]

again the batsman in gilly is making you say that he is a lock and the point i am making is for pure WK-ing reasons Knott and Healy are a lock..btw during Healy's time Aussies were as dominant except that Taylor's Aussies had the tendency to lose dead rubber's...IMO without Gilly 2K Aussies would have been as dominant as they were with him..plus if you do a side by side comparison of the crucial innings played by Healy and Gilchrist it would be same and Healy might come ahead as well because of the kinda attack he faced..so Healy or Knott for me..

I prefer Knott as I think he was quite possibly the best keeper ever, plus he could bat a bit.

Gilly was a really good keeper though.

 

[akilana]

you are just being lazy. you just looked at the overall away average. you need to start checking how he went against each country in their backyard. they give you clearer picture than i can.

 

[ankitj]

And also look at the stats in different phases of his career. For 11 long years, he was incomparable to anyone in test cricket history. Picked 631 wickets in 90 matches. His stats in some countries suffered because he didn't play much there in that 11 year period. All statistical exercises that normalize for home/away and everything else, still put Murali ahead of Warne. I know stats don't tell the whole picture and people who look at stats are uncivilized stone age cave dwellers, but at least stats are no one's personal opinions.

 

[doesitmatter]

He played his home matches in a country where except for the SCG, all of the pitches are prepared with pace in mind and possibly the most difficult pitches to bowl spin, compared to bowling at home on made to order turners. He was also one of the two main keys on one of the three greatest teams in history while changing the rules of the game and contributing with his slip fielding and his lower order batting. For me he will always be the second bowler put down on my AT team behind the incomparable Marshall and the only two guarenteed of a place.

I disagree..The Aussie pitches had bounce and ask any spinner bounce is a crucial factor as well or ask Warne he will tell the same..Brisbane btw was his favorite ground for this very reason if i am not wrong..

 

[hang on]

I disagree..The Aussie pitches had bounce and ask any spinner bounce is a crucial factor as well or ask Warne he will tell the same..Brisbane btw was his favorite ground for this very reason if i am not wrong..

that is true, though uneven bounce is, arguably, even more important. that said, the truly important issue is, in my 'umble, the fact that they were his own conditions....conditions he grew up in and hence was used to.

that is why subcontinental batsmen can play spin in subcontinental conditions (loosely and very generally speaking, obviously, since the subcontinent is a massive place with varying conditions) with greater facility. and saffer and english batsmen ditto with swing and seam. the truly great are the ones who have done well everywhere....at least, almost everywhere. that is why my respect for mcgrath, hadlee, marshall is so high. and for batsmen like tendulkar and viv and lara.