wellAlbidarned
International Coach
The selectors better just be ****ing with us with the suggestion of dropping Ellis for Boult. I mean seriously. No-one can possibly say it's a good idea with a straight face.
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***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2012
- Thread starter Heboric
- Start date
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
wtf. I don't get the Nicol hate. I'm kind of glad he's making his debut and getting a Test run. Has put in the work in domestic cricket, and yeah, he's no brilliant player who will average 50+ but he might do a darn sight better than some of the sorry candidates we've had come through. And if he doesn't, it's no big loss anyway.
Flem274*
123/5
20 matches opening for Canterbury, with 1108 at 31.65. He was a solid middle order batsman for Aucks, but he's never really scored a big heap of runs opening.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
And yet it's still better than Andrew "I score runs every time I play" Ellis's average.
Ellis is not a batsman. The selectors haven't even picked him as one; he's in competition with Boult to play a spare part role as a #8 bat and fifth bowler (which for all his likely rubbishness, he does have the credentials to play as). It'd be a different case if he'd looked as rubbish as he does but spent his entire career plundering runs, but he spent seven years in the side as a bowling allrounder and then, probably through experience and nous more than any technical improvements that would see results at Test level, improved his batting a bit, put together a bit of form and consistently got starts and 50s for two seasons.
If you want to keep the top four as is then bat Nicol at 5, or 7 if you like - he's a better batsman than Ellis is any role. Making a few scores of 40* and such does in the Plunket Shield after seven seasons of mediocrity does not give you credentials as a Test batsman. As I've said, I don't think Nicol will do much either, but to select Ellis as a batsman under any criteria - performance-based or otherwise - would be ridiculous. And let's not pretend his bowling would be a factor if he were to be the fifth seamer and sixth bowler overall in the team.
Flem274*
123/5
Yeah, Nicol is, but I think Ellis suits the team more, if that makes sense.
I also have a thing for sticking up for unfashionable cricketers no one else likes.
KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
Batting 7th and bowling 6th?
Neil Young
State Vice-Captain
Ellis is a bits and pieces cricketer. As much as I don't particularly rate Nicol, I would prefer we played specialists as a rule.
Mike5181
International Captain
He isn't as inept as I thought he was. He's a competent batsman and against lesser test bowling attacks he probably could perform ok.Yeah, Nicol is, but I think Ellis suits the team more, if that makes sense.
I also have a thing for sticking up for unfashionable cricketers no one else likes.
Anyway, we criticise a lot of these players but in the end I actually want all eleven of them to play well and give us a good result.
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Flem274*
123/5
Ellis innings by innings (most recent first)
86, 15, DNB, 65*, 11, 97*, 3, 50*
(season gap)
DNB, 11, 53, 10, 29*, 4, 19, DNB, 22, DNB, 118, 0, 39, 53, 5*, 2
Last season you had a point. This season he's impossible to get out (until you put him in to bat against South Africa).
I cbf doing the same list for Nicol. I'm willing to bet his recent record is pretty average though. I think Ellis would be more useful than Nicol overall.
Just pick Sinclair you ****s.
86, 15, DNB, 65*, 11, 97*, 3, 50*
(season gap)
DNB, 11, 53, 10, 29*, 4, 19, DNB, 22, DNB, 118, 0, 39, 53, 5*, 2
Last season you had a point. This season he's impossible to get out (until you put him in to bat against South Africa).
I cbf doing the same list for Nicol. I'm willing to bet his recent record is pretty average though. I think Ellis would be more useful than Nicol overall.
Just pick Sinclair you ****s.
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Flem274*
123/5
But we won't be 0/2 after 2.2 if he plays. We'll just be 99/8.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I'm not going to deny that Ellis has been good recently; I acknowledged such in my posts. But he's not played as a frontline batsman even for Canterbury other than on a handful of a occasions, he hasn't really made the scores of a batsman, and you shouldn't be selecting the team based on a season's work anyway unless they are clearly special (which Ellis certainly is not).
Nicol should not be playing but he should be a loonnng way ahead of Ellis on batting alone. FWIW I'll agree with you that Ellis is a better cricketer than Nicol and most people wouldn't even go that far, but to suggest Ellis has more credentials as a Test batsman is ridiculous AFAIC, and if you're already playing five bowlers that's all that should matter.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Your main argument for picking Ellis seems to be that you don't want to mess around with the top four as it stands, but there's nothing stopping you sticking Nicol in at 5-7 anyway.But we won't be 0/2 after 2.2 if he plays. We'll just be 99/8.
The tail is already long, the keeper is on debut, Vettori hasn't hit any runs for ND and Taylor is coming back from injury. You do not want to add Ellis as a specialist batsman into that mix. I mean you don't want to add Nicol in either really but as much as I rate Ellis higher than most and Nicol lower than most, suggesting Ellis is the better bat or better suited to batting any position is pushing it way too far.
Flem274*
123/5
I just think Ellis is more likely to make something of himself in tests than Nicol, and I think Ellis is more suited to batting at seven specifically. It's a funny one since they shouldn't really be against each other for a spot because they play such different roles. I don't think either is particularly good, but at 50/6 (we know it's coming) I'd rather Ellis coming to the wicket than Nicol, because rescues are what Ellis does.
If Nicol was to be batting at five, I'd pick him, but if he has to open to play then no way. I'll take the guy who gets to play in his proper position and has a history of producing some good innings for that position like smoking a quick forty or scoring the fifty that brings the score to respectability.
If Nicol was to be batting at five, I'd pick him, but if he has to open to play then no way. I'll take the guy who gets to play in his proper position and has a history of producing some good innings for that position like smoking a quick forty or scoring the fifty that brings the score to respectability.
Flem274*
123/5
Nicol is definitely opening if he plays though, so I'm selecting on that logic.
Vettori will come good. He always does. He just has a mild case of ND Syndrome atm.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Ellis will definitely bat eight and replace Boult if he plays too, so your logic contains large traces of double standards.
KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
His logic contains no traces of logic, tbh.Ellis will definitely bat eight and replace Boult if he plays too, so your logic contains large traces of double standards.
Flem274*
123/5
^^^^closer to the mark.
Flem274*
123/5
....Ellis will definitely bat eight and replace Boult if he plays too, so your logic contains large traces of double standards.
shuddup
BeeGee
International Captain
If NZ bat first there won't be a fourth innings and there won't be a day 5. The game will be over as a contest on day 1 when NZ are all out for less than 200.
In what universe is it a good idea to start the game by putting your weakness up against the opposition's strength? The only chance NZ have is to lead with their strength (seam bowling) and put pressure on the opposition at the start of the game.
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