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In a League of Their Own

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
From the book by Richard Sydenham, he asks 100 past cricketers to vote for their all time 11's. At the end of the book he tallies the votes and names a compilation team. From reading articles I can glean than some of the members of that team are Gavaskar, Bradman, Richards, Warne and Hadlee.

Does anyone know the make up of the final 11 and the votes for each selected player?
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Gavaskar 58
Greenidge 26
Bradman 53
Richards 64
Tendulkar 42
Sobers 73
Knott 34
Warne 61
Akram 27
Marshall 35
Lillee 53

reserves
Gilchrist 26
Lara 25
Hutton 21
Imran 21
Laker 12

We have a review here

... and an extract here
 

smash84

The Tiger King
wow...Gavaskar, Richards, and Lillee did equal or better than Bradman in garnering votes
 

smash84

The Tiger King
yeah......I figured that.....but I what I didn't think was that modern players would be so ignorant :p
 

Jayzamann

International Regular
You need to bear in mind that a lot of the modern players didn't consider players from before their time
There's also the underlying notion that to pick Bradman could be a bit cliche, and to suggest someone else may be outside the box.

Or everyone else just assumed everyone else would pick Bradman. It's written in pen most of the time.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
There seems to be a trend brewing. When ever we on CW selects an all time 11 (and I checked), the bowlers are Hadlee, Marshall, Imran and Warne. When ever past players or journalist select their bowlers for the past couple of years they have selected each time Lillee, Marshall, Akram and Warne.

I have personally stated previously that I belive Akram and Lillee to be overrated, but for different reasons. Lille because he played in the same era and againts the same oppsition as Hadlee, Imran and Marshall and was statistically inferior. On top of this he played primarily in only two countries in which he took 92% of his wickets and never proved him self in the s/c. Akram similarly played in an era with Donald, Ambrose and Mcgrath and finished statistically slightly behind or on par with all three, but that can be explained by playing at home in pakistan and not having the fielding (slip/ keeper primarily) that all of the others (especially Marshall, Lillee, Mcgrath and Ambrose) had. What dips him for me is that I am not even sure that he was the best bowler on his team (Waqar) and the high percentage of lower order wickets that he has taken. The lower order wickets to me is due to the fact that he was so much more effective with the reverse swinging older ball, much more so than with the new one.

So is it that the older players get caught up with the magic balls of Akram and force that was Lillee, or are we too caught up with statistics.

With batsmen we accept that stats dont tell the whole story, other wise Richards would never be the first team lock that he is, should we also do the same with bowlers. I personally dont think so, as for bowlers the aim is to take wickets as often as possible for as little runs.
Let me know ow you guys see it.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
With batsmen we accept that stats dont tell the whole story, other wise Richards would never be the first team lock that he is, should we also do the same with bowlers. I personally dont think so, as for bowlers the aim is to take wickets as often as possible for as little runs.
Let me know ow you guys see it.
Agree with most of your post but can't agree with your last paragraph; personally I think bowling stats have a greater 'margin of error' if you like than batting stats.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
why do you say that?
Well, there are several variables that can make both batting and bowling stats misleading. Quality of opposition, pitch conditions, peaks and troughs, longevity, gravity of the situation etc all apply equally to batting and bowling, and if these variables are inconsistent in a comparison between players then they can create misleading averages.

However, on top of that, I think there are few extra bowling variables which can potentially throw out an average than there are for batting. While the above examples that apply to both disciplines can alter the context of one's output, there are variables that apply to bowling that can actually change what the contribution was; I don't think bowling figures do as good as job of measuring the value of a performance as runs scored does for batting. For example, bowling figures don't differentiate between top order and lower order wickets despite the obvious contrast in value, and there's no equivalent batting variable for that. It's also possible to maintain pressure from one end with testing, disciplined bowling that can help the other members of your attack - this is something that has ramifications both on the figures of the pressure bowler and the bowlers who benefit from it with wickets. There's no batting equivalent to that either; if you aren't scoring runs you're not contributing.
 
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G.I.Joe

International Coach
Fielding is a great factor in the variability of bowling stats. If a great bowler happens to have a fielding side that concedes an extra boundary (relative to a fielding side for another great bowler) every 18-20 overs he bowls, that's an extra 2 runs tacked onto his bowling average and 0.2 onto his ER.

Wasim's Pakistani fielding sides probably conceded more than an extra boundary every 20 overs than McGrath's Australian sides.

Then there's dropped catches that could and probably would affect strike rates.
 
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smash84

The Tiger King
Fielding is a great factor in the variability of bowling stats. If a great bowler happens to have a fielding side that concedes an extra boundary (relative to a fielding side for another great bowler) every 18-20 overs, that's an extra 2 runs tacked onto his bowling average and 0.2 onto his ER.
Ouch......had no idea that bad fielding could hurt you that much not to mention the innumerable number of dropped catches :@
 
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The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Gavaskar 58
Greenidge 26
Bradman 53
Richards 64
Tendulkar 42
Sobers 73
Knott 34
Warne 61
Akram 27
Marshall 35
Lillee 53

reserves
Gilchrist 26
Lara 25
Hutton 21
Imran 21
Laker 12

We have a review here

... and an extract here
All this time I thought Bradman was the 8th greatest cricketer of all time. Turns out he's actually 5th.
 

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