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Players that are the most overated by CW posters.

robelinda

International Vice-Captain
Ponting has been superb in ODI's as captain, just superb. None of his flaws as a test skippers have been evident in odi's. He always looks in total control as odi skipper. His success in India in 03 and 09 with really inexperienced bowling attacks was excellent, as was the 03 World Cup- having warne out so close to the first match was a massive blow, but his tactics were bloody good throughout that world cup. I thought his first series as captain was awesome too, in SA in 2002.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
Most overrated players here at CW?

1. Glenn McGrath
2. Imran Kahn
3. Shane Bond


Glenn McGrath is by far the most overrated person here.

McGrath is one of the greatest fast bowlers ever. But he's stats overstate his impact. Just as you can have a player who's stats don't show his true impact, like Ian Botham, you can have a player who's stats make them look too good.

Back in the 90s McGrath wasn't rated as highly as he was towards the end of his career. In fact it wasn't until 1999 that I really thought he was the world's best fast bowler. Before that there were a lot of players I felt were better.

When ESPN did their Legends of Cricket series back in 2001, Glenn McGrath came in the 40s, which at that time made perfect sense to me. Of course if it were re-done today you'd expect McGrath to make the top 25.

The thing about McGrath is he keeps his stats tidy when he's not playing well. People forget that back in 2006 his ODI form dropped and people began to criticize him for being too old. Of course McGrath reversed that trend, performed well in the first Ashes Test of the 2006/07 series, and then was the player of the tournament at the 2007 ODI World Cup.

But the interesting thing about McGrath was he got criticized because Australia were losing and he wasn't being effective, yet in many of the ODI's batsmen were scoring less than 40 off him. They didn't care, teams were beating Australia and McGrath wasn't having the impact that wins games. But his stats didn't take much of a hit because McGrath managed to keep his figures tidy when his team was losing.

It's fascinating actually, I can remember games where McGrath had very little impact on the actual winning of the game, but he was always so economical that when teams were happy to not score runs off him, you'd never realize he wasn't having much of an impact of the game.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that his economy was always great, but bowlers are there to take wickets, and McGrath was a player who, when he wasn't taking wickets, wasn't doing much for his team.


Imran is number two on my list. He's in the top 10 of all-time, no doubt. But people here act as though he was miles ahead of Botham, Hadlee and Dev. It makes no sense to me. In their day Imran was considered the best by most, but not by much. People here act as though he is the second best cricketer after Bradman. I think certain factors about Imran's career are overlooked by people here.

Shane Bond... I don't want to go into that.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
So what about the fact that McGrath got better and better despite batting becoming easier and easier and scores getting larger and larger?
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
haha, revolutionary idea that. A bowler who's not taking wickets isn't doing much for his team.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
So what about the fact that McGrath got better and better despite batting becoming easier and easier and scores getting larger and larger?
I'll give McGrath that. McGrath's best was probably the West Indies in 1999, when he was unlucky to miss out on the MOTS award. And there were times I thought Australia needed a fast bowler like Ambrose to intimidate and provide some express pace, which wasn't provided with McGrath spearheading the attack.

I'm being harsh on him, I know. But he really isn't the best bowler ever, like some people believe. There's no doubt in my mind he's not the best bowler ever.

It wasn't until the later 90s that McGrath could be mentioned with the likes of Akram, Ambrose and Donald though. I even remember a time when I thought Shaun Pollock was his equal.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
So what if McGrath wasn't numero uno for his entire career? Most players aren't.

But he was clearly the best from 2000-2006 other than when he was injured. That's a large portion of his career.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Most overrated players here at CW?

1. Glenn McGrath
2. Imran Kahn
3. Shane Bond


Glenn McGrath is by far the most overrated person here.

McGrath is one of the greatest fast bowlers ever. But he's stats overstate his impact. Just as you can have a player who's stats don't show his true impact, like Ian Botham, you can have a player who's stats make them look too good.

Back in the 90s McGrath wasn't rated as highly as he was towards the end of his career. In fact it wasn't until 1999 that I really thought he was the world's best fast bowler. Before that there were a lot of players I felt were better.

When ESPN did their Legends of Cricket series back in 2001, Glenn McGrath came in the 40s, which at that time made perfect sense to me. Of course if it were re-done today you'd expect McGrath to make the top 25.

The thing about McGrath is he keeps his stats tidy when he's not playing well. People forget that back in 2006 his ODI form dropped and people began to criticize him for being too old. Of course McGrath reversed that trend, performed well in the first Ashes Test of the 2006/07 series, and then was the player of the tournament at the 2007 ODI World Cup.

But the interesting thing about McGrath was he got criticized because Australia were losing and he wasn't being effective, yet in many of the ODI's batsmen were scoring less than 40 off him. They didn't care, teams were beating Australia and McGrath wasn't having the impact that wins games. But his stats didn't take much of a hit because McGrath managed to keep his figures tidy when his team was losing.

It's fascinating actually, I can remember games where McGrath had very little impact on the actual winning of the game, but he was always so economical that when teams were happy to not score runs off him, you'd never realize he wasn't having much of an impact of the game.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that his economy was always great, but bowlers are there to take wickets, and McGrath was a player who, when he wasn't taking wickets, wasn't doing much for his team.


Imran is number two on my list. He's in the top 10 of all-time, no doubt. But people here act as though he was miles ahead of Botham, Hadlee and Dev. It makes no sense to me. In their day Imran was considered the best by most, but not by much. People here act as though he is the second best cricketer after Bradman. I think certain factors about Imran's career are overlooked by people here.

Shane Bond... I don't want to go into that.
How is keeping your stats tidy a bad thing?

Glenn McGrath was the best bowler in the world during the best decade for batting ever. He is in no way overrated, if anything, he is massively underappreciated because he's just a "boring accurate medium fast bowler."

As for Bond, knowing your history I'm not surprised you don't want to go into it.;)
 

smash84

The Tiger King
Most overrated players here at CW?

1. Glenn McGrath
2. Imran Kahn
3. Shane Bond


Glenn McGrath is by far the most overrated person here.

McGrath is one of the greatest fast bowlers ever. But he's stats overstate his impact. Just as you can have a player who's stats don't show his true impact, like Ian Botham, you can have a player who's stats make them look too good.

Back in the 90s McGrath wasn't rated as highly as he was towards the end of his career. In fact it wasn't until 1999 that I really thought he was the world's best fast bowler. Before that there were a lot of players I felt were better.

When ESPN did their Legends of Cricket series back in 2001, Glenn McGrath came in the 40s, which at that time made perfect sense to me. Of course if it were re-done today you'd expect McGrath to make the top 25.

The thing about McGrath is he keeps his stats tidy when he's not playing well. People forget that back in 2006 his ODI form dropped and people began to criticize him for being too old. Of course McGrath reversed that trend, performed well in the first Ashes Test of the 2006/07 series, and then was the player of the tournament at the 2007 ODI World Cup.

But the interesting thing about McGrath was he got criticized because Australia were losing and he wasn't being effective, yet in many of the ODI's batsmen were scoring less than 40 off him. They didn't care, teams were beating Australia and McGrath wasn't having the impact that wins games. But his stats didn't take much of a hit because McGrath managed to keep his figures tidy when his team was losing.

It's fascinating actually, I can remember games where McGrath had very little impact on the actual winning of the game, but he was always so economical that when teams were happy to not score runs off him, you'd never realize he wasn't having much of an impact of the game.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that his economy was always great, but bowlers are there to take wickets, and McGrath was a player who, when he wasn't taking wickets, wasn't doing much for his team.

.
Quite puzzling really that you talk about McGrath not taking wickets in ODIs and only containing. There are lots of factors that will get you wickets. One of the biggest reasons will be how carefully the batsmen play the bowler. The other teams were always wary of McGrath and would play him out lest he destroys them. It is not like other bowlers were conjuring wickets at their will whenever their team was not doing well. Stemming the flow of runs is very important in ODIs and not very easy to bowl all your 10 overs under 4 runs an over match after match especially in the 00s
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Shaun Pollock struggled too, though he took over at such a bad time and at a youngish age. It's pretty harsh to compare him to someone who took over a champion team (not that SA were bad, they just didn't like beating Australia).
 

Maximus0723

State Regular
Most overrated players here at CW?

1. Glenn McGrath
2. Imran Kahn
3. Shane Bond


Glenn McGrath is by far the most overrated person here.

McGrath is one of the greatest fast bowlers ever. But he's stats overstate his impact. Just as you can have a player who's stats don't show his true impact, like Ian Botham, you can have a player who's stats make them look too good.

Back in the 90s McGrath wasn't rated as highly as he was towards the end of his career. In fact it wasn't until 1999 that I really thought he was the world's best fast bowler. Before that there were a lot of players I felt were better.

When ESPN did their Legends of Cricket series back in 2001, Glenn McGrath came in the 40s, which at that time made perfect sense to me. Of course if it were re-done today you'd expect McGrath to make the top 25.

The thing about McGrath is he keeps his stats tidy when he's not playing well. People forget that back in 2006 his ODI form dropped and people began to criticize him for being too old. Of course McGrath reversed that trend, performed well in the first Ashes Test of the 2006/07 series, and then was the player of the tournament at the 2007 ODI World Cup.

But the interesting thing about McGrath was he got criticized because Australia were losing and he wasn't being effective, yet in many of the ODI's batsmen were scoring less than 40 off him. They didn't care, teams were beating Australia and McGrath wasn't having the impact that wins games. But his stats didn't take much of a hit because McGrath managed to keep his figures tidy when his team was losing.

It's fascinating actually, I can remember games where McGrath had very little impact on the actual winning of the game, but he was always so economical that when teams were happy to not score runs off him, you'd never realize he wasn't having much of an impact of the game.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that his economy was always great, but bowlers are there to take wickets, and McGrath was a player who, when he wasn't taking wickets, wasn't doing much for his team.
Mcgrath SR- 51
Waqar-43
Donald-47
Ambrose-54
Wasim-54
Murali-55
Warne-57

Among the best, he falls right in the middle of the pack in terms of taking wickets. I don't know the ODI numbers for above players but I know he is right there with the pack with his SR of 34.
IIRC, he also, has played least amount of tests vs. minnows compared to other greats.
On top, IIRC, McGrath has the least amount of tail-ender wickets compared to other greats.

IMO, your statements are completely disproved by stats.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
So what if McGrath wasn't numero uno for his entire career? Most players aren't.

But he was clearly the best from 2000-2006 other than when he was injured. That's a large portion of his career.
Nope.

Warne and Murali were both better at points in that time.

Warne was on such a different level to McGrath in the 2004 Sri Lankan Test series. Without Warne, Australia lose that series 2-0. McGrath, I felt, was the best bowler in the world from Perth 2004 to Lords in 2005. People ignore just how awesome he was in that short time frame. Warne took what, 96 wickets in 2005 was it? A world record? Warne was simply better.

McGrath didn't play for part of 2006 due to his wife, so I don't know where you got the idea he was the best in the world in 2006 from. Even in 2006 he was showing signs of slowing down, before speeding up later on.

Murali... I hated the way he kind of padded-up wickets in every game, but ignoring that, he was amazing from 2000-2006. Even when Lara was taking to him he managed to get fivers etc.

McGrath, yes I think he was the best from the end of 2004 to the middle of 2005. And Warne was really struggling with injury in 2000, and McGrath was clearly better in that time. But even when Warne was struggling with injuries and considering early retirement, he performed on par with McGrath in the 2001 Ashes. In 2002 they were about the same too.

I'd say it alternated between McGrath, Murali and Warne in the last decade. No way could I say with certainty McGrath was the best bowler in the world from a whole seven years.

How is keeping your stats tidy a bad thing?

Glenn McGrath was the best bowler in the world during the best decade for batting ever.
Keeping your stats tidy is a good thing, I never said it wasn't. But if you're going for 40 runs and taking no wickets, then the other side has wickets to spare to hit out. There were matches where McGrath didn't take wickets when needed, and it hurt Australia. THAT'S HARSH OF ME because in most matches McGrath did take wickets.

I remember when Shane Watson came onto the scene he got dropped and had a sook in the papers about being dropped. He made the claim he kept the other side under pressure by not going for much runs. Jeff Thompson came back at Watson in the media and made something clear, getting wickets is the bowlers first objective. If you're not taking wickets, you shouldn't be in the side. When McGrath went through a brief period of taking no wickets one game and no wickets the other etc, Australia suffered.

Of course keeping your stats tidy is important, but it's a secondary important to actually taking wickets. And of course McGrath not taking wickets, but still not going for many runs, it's an impressive accomplishment.

As for Bond, knowing your history I'm not surprised you don't want to go into it.
What do you mean?

Quite puzzling really that you talk about McGrath not taking wickets in ODIs and only containing. There are lots of factors that will get you wickets. One of the biggest reasons will be how carefully the batsmen play the bowler. The other teams were always wary of McGrath and would play him out lest he destroys them. It is not like other bowlers were conjuring wickets at their will whenever their team was not doing well. Stemming the flow of runs is very important in ODIs and not very easy to bowl all your 10 overs under 4 runs an over match after match especially in the 00s
I'm talking about matches where McGrath needed to take wickets, and didn't. Of course preventing runs from happening is important in ODI's.
 
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Francis

State Vice-Captain
Mcgrath SR- 51
Waqar-43
Donald-47
Ambrose-54
Wasim-54
Murali-55
Warne-57

Among the best, he falls right in the middle of the pack in terms of taking wickets. I don't know the ODI numbers for above players but I know he is right there with the pack with his SR of 34.
IIRC, he also, has played least amount of tests vs. minnows compared to other greats.
On top, IIRC, McGrath has the least amount of tail-ender wickets compared to other greats.

IMO, your statements are completely disproved by stats.
Yikes I'm being misunderstood all over the shop.

I never said McGrath didn't have a great strike rate. I'm talking about a period in 2006 when his form dropped off and the press started saying he should retire. McGrath wasn't effective like he usually was, yet he was still economical. It's good to be economical, but you're not helping the side if you don't take wickets.

Of course McGrath DID take wickets and is one of the greatest bowlers ever. I said that before. It's the first thing I said. But I'm talking about selected periods of his career when I don't think he was the match winner other fast bowlers were, like for most of the 90s and in late 2006!

During those periods his impact, while notable, was not as good as that of others, but you don't notice it because he always remained economical. Of course it's good to be economical, but it's no substitute for taking wickets.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's one of the 10 best fast bowlers ever though. But to me it's not even a certainty that he's the best bowler of his generation. I'd take Murali and Warne over him.
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
Francis, are you sure McGrath even played the 2004 Sri Lanka series?
Caught out! Sorry a bit of a mistake there.

I remembered he played in the 2004 India series and took it for granted he didn't play in 2004 in Sri Lanka, where Warne carried the Australian bowling attack and took almost half their wickets.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
McGrath returned against India, and immediately took out Chopra and Dravid for **** all on a flat track.

WAG
 

Francis

State Vice-Captain
And guys don't get me wrong, McGrath is great.

I remember when I first joined here I posted a massive post of McGrath's form from Perth 2004 when he demolished Pakistan to Lord 2005 when he demolished England. I went as far to say that if McGrath had that form in the 3rd and 5th Ashes Tests, Australia would have retained the Ashes in 2005.

I remember making a hard argument that players like Richard Hadlee (who also is overrated) never had a bowling peak like McGrath did from that time frame. I said it was one of the best peaks I had ever seen. I went further to say McGrath was more about line and length. I've written commentaries on how he worked out batsmen with tiny differences in his line and length. I knew McGrath so well I could usually guess when he'd get a ball to nip back rather than seam away. He was a great player.

But to say he was the best bowler of his generation? Well I don't agree, and if he was he certainly had a lot of close competition.

I say he's overrated because there's people here at CW that honestly think he's the best bowler of all time. I don't see it because it's not true.
 

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