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Thread: Can any one tell me what the hell Ponting is talking about ?

  1. #31
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    I don't see what South Africa have to do with my point.

    Ponting has criticised subcontinental pitches. My argument is that Australia is just as, if not more, batting friendly than India.
    They key difference between the flat decks in Australia & Indian this decade is basically the bounce present in Australian pitches.

    Take the Adelaide Oval for example. Thats one of the flattest pitches around generally very comparable to a road in IND, SRI or PAK. But the adelaide oval generally has consistent bounce (at least until day 5). While the sub-continent pitches generally have inconsistent bounce.

  2. #32
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    He singled out subcontinent...yes. But there is little inference he is merely talking about his own country. In fact, the context suggests the wider 'cricket' involving everybody. That really is kinda obvious.
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  3. #33
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    I don't see what South Africa have to do with my point.

    Ponting has criticised subcontinental pitches. My argument is that Australia is just as, if not more, batting friendly than India.
    They have everything to do with the point. The reason the averages are so high in Australia are mainly because of Australia herself. And yet, IIRC, still the averages are higher in India, although not by much. Considering Australia has such a low percentage of draws comparatively, it's been through superiority, rather than flat pitches, that they've made those runs/won games.

    S.Africa are relevant because they show that India aren't all that great away from home. It's actually somewhat surprising how they've shown up against Australia in the past decade. But that shouldn't be used simply to give yourself a tick in the argument.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    He singled out subcontinent...yes. But there is little inference he is merely talking about his own country. In fact, the context suggests the wider 'cricket' involving everybody. That really is kinda obvious.
    But by singling out the subcontinent and the phrasing of his comments, he is strongly implying Australia is less problematic in the matter. The fact is that its not. Australia is as result-oriented, or not result-oriented as the subcontinent.

    Otherwise he wouldn't have singled out anyone, and would perhaps have even started his point on home soil, with criticisms of Australian pitches.
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  5. #35
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    From 2000 to 2010 - not including minnows:

    Australia: 53 test matches, of which 9 were draws - 17%.
    England: 64 test matches, of which 16 were draws - 25%
    India: 43 test matches, of which 17 were draws - 40%
    New Zealand: 37 test matches, of which 11 were draws - 30%
    Pakistan: 28 test matches, of which 10 were draws - 36%
    South Africa: 46 test matches, of which 7 were draws - 15%.
    Sri Lanka: 42 test matches, of which 11 were draws - 26%.
    West Indies: 45 test matches, of which 19 were draws - 42%.

  6. #36
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    From 2000 to 2010 - not including minnows:
    Would be interested to see a more recent timeframe.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    He says the subcontinent doesn't produce enough results. It's been proven that it matches up with Australia in that regard.
    No it hasn't- only in matches involving Australia and a subcontinental team is that the case. Unless there's a part of the interview SJS has not mentioned, there's no reason to assume that Ponting was only talking about these games rather than all test matches taking place.

  8. #38
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    But by singling out the subcontinent and the phrasing of his comments, he is strongly implying Australia is less problematic in the matter. The fact is that its not. Australia is as result-oriented, or not result-oriented as the subcontinent.

    Otherwise he wouldn't have singled out anyone, and would perhaps have even started his point on home soil, with criticisms of Australian pitches.
    Australia clearly are less problematic in that area. Where that should entail only the comparison of two countries in this claim is one of your own fiction.

    He means subcontinent pitches affect matches played against ALL countries negatively. And infers that Australian pitches affect matches played against ALL countries less.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    Would be interested to see a more recent timeframe.
    Last five years:
    Australia: 28 matches, 3 draws
    India/Pakistan: 37 matches, 17 draws.

    The disparity becomes even bigger. I think you're going to have to back down on this one mate

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    No it hasn't- only in matches involving Australia and a subcontinental team is that the case. Unless there's a part of the interview SJS has not mentioned, there's no reason to assume that Ponting was only talking about these games rather than all test matches taking place.
    But I'm factoring other points that have been brought into discussion:

    - why subcontinental batsmen do well on subcontinental pitches
    - many foreign batsmen struggle on subcontinental pitches
    - why batting averages are so high in Australia and yet results so, apparently, abundant

    Which are valid reasons for why two teams, thoroughly accustomed to playing cricket well in particular conditions would naturally produce highscoring matches. As for results in Australia, they did have a pretty decent (best in the world) bowling attack for a long time, which goes a fair way to explaining it perhaps. I don't see subcontinental pitches as any less conducive to results as the majority in the world. And this tends to be proven when non-subcontinental teams play on them.

    If you want to talk about dead pitches that kill cricket, look at the West Indies.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    The disparity becomes even bigger. I think you're going to have to back down on this one mate
    Not at all. The quality of opposition and their ability to play in particular conditions is an enormous factor. That's what home field advantage is. India wins matches in India because they know how to win on these "dead" pitches. They just comprehensively defeated Sri Lanka on such pitches.

    West Indies lost the first Test to Australia on, for all intents and purposes, a flat pitch.
    Last edited by Mr Mxyzptlk; 14-12-2009 at 01:00 PM.

  12. #42
    gwo
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    Yeah but,

    "Yeah but, they were worse!" just doesn't cut it as an argument. Ricky was just making a point about "subcontinent" pitches.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    But I'm factoring other points that have been brought into discussion:

    - why subcontinental batsmen do well on subcontinental pitches
    - many foreign batsmen struggle on subcontinental pitches
    - why batting averages are so high in Australia and yet results so, apparently, abundant

    Which are valid reasons for why two teams, thoroughly accustomed to playing cricket well in particular conditions would naturally produce highscoring matches. As for results in Australia, they did have a pretty decent (best in the world) bowling attack for a long time, which goes a fair way to explaining it perhaps. I don't see subcontinental pitches as any less conducive to results as the majority in the world. And this tends to be proven when non-subcontinental teams play on them.

    If you want to talk about dead pitches that kill cricket, look at the West Indies.
    Yeah, those are all perfectly valid points, but they don't refute what Ponting is saying. He's saying that, in comparison to Australian pitches, subcontinental pitches don't produce enough results. And whether it's the fault of the ground staff or the fault of the players, they do produce significantly less results, so it's a pretty fair point to make if that's his opinion.

    Certainly nothing to warrant the **** being thrown at him here in any case.

  14. #44
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Yeah, those are all perfectly valid points, but they don't refute what Ponting is saying. He's saying that, in comparison to Australian pitches, subcontinental pitches don't produce enough results.
    Maybe to do with the quality of bowling on the pitches than the pitches themselves though. That and the ability of batsmen to play certain types of bowling. And the disparity between the type of conditions on the subcontinent and the rest of the world. That is, knowing how to play and win on the subcontinent certainly does not translate to knowing how to do so in South Africa or Australia. And vice versa. Australia doesn't have a stellar record in India, but when they go there, amazingly enough, results tend to happen.

  15. #45
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    Would be interested to see a more recent timeframe.
    Since 01 Jan 2007:

    Australia: 2/14 - 14%
    England: 33%
    India: 7/15 - 47%
    NZ: 4/11 - 36%
    Pakistan: 3/4 - 75%
    S.Africa: 0/12 - 0%
    Sri Lanka: 3/11 - 27%
    W.Indies: 5/10 - 50%

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