Saffers in English cricket

[shivfan]

Jonathan Trott's successful debut now makes it four Englishmen who were born in South Africa who have now cemented their place in the English Test team, the others being Andrew Strauss, Kevin Pietersen and Matthew Prior....

And there are quite a few others making runs in county cricket. Who knows, in a couple of years' time, we could see an England side playing the next Ashes series with a batting lineup that looks like this:

1) Andrew Strauss
2) Stephen Moore
3) Michael Lumb
4) Kevin Pietersen
5) Jacques Rudolph
6) Jonathan Trott
7) Matthew Prior

Given the influx of Saffer cricketers to England over the past decade, this is quite a real possibility. I guess English cricket has a lot to thank the end of apartheid for!

[GIMH]

I think it's important, though, to distinguish between Strauss & Prior, and Pietersen and Trott. Strauss and Prior are products of English cricket, and have been over here since their youth, and I think have English parents as well.

[BoyBrumby]

To be fair, South Africans were coming over long before the end of Apartheid. Think D'Oliveira was the first to make our test team and was followed by Tony Greig, Ian Greig, Allan Lamb, Chris Smith, Robin Smith, Neal Radford, KP & Trott. Strauss & Prior are slightly different in that they came to the UK as children with their families.

Fair play to them, I say. If a player is available for selection and is the best man for the job we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot to ignore them based on birthplace or upbringing.

[Marcuss]

Made a similar point to PEWS on msn earlier this evening itbt. Trying to name an English qualified, Saffa born XI.

You should see the XI you could make out of Kolpaks though, it's ridiculous.

[TT Boy]

No issue with Strauss, Prior et cetera. They were educated here and were produced by our system.

Playing cricketers who couldn't speak English until they were 20 is another thing though.

[PhoenixFire]

Meh that doesn't really bother me TBH. As long as they give their 100% best when playing for England, I'll take anyone.

[Marcuss]

Originally Posted by marcussjd9

Made a similar point to PEWS on msn earlier this evening itbt. Trying to name an English qualified, Saffa born XI.

You should see the XI you could make out of Kolpaks though, it's ridiculous.

Here's a team of South Africans playing County Cricket who have "disowned" South Africa, with accompanying First Class records.

1. Boeta Dippenaar (10,695 runs @ 41.45)
2. Jacques Rudolph (10,931 runs @ 44.43; 58 wickets @ 41.51)
3. Martin van Jaarsveld (15,021 runs @ 45.38)
4. Kevin Pietersen (11,026 runs @ 50.81; 61 wickets @ 52.93)
5. Dale Benkenstein (12,486 runs @ 46.07; 87 wickets @ 36.11)
6. Jonathan Trott (8,204 runs @ 43.87; 50 wickets @ 45.68)
7. Nic Pothas (10,354 runs @ 41.91; 597 dismissals)
8. Andrew Hall (6,210 runs @ 34.69; 492 wickets @ 25.71)
9. Nicky Boje (8,244 runs @ 34.32; 545 wickets @ 32.17)
10. Ryan McLaren (2,533 runs @ 27.23; 248 wickets @ 24.78)
11. Johan van der Wath (2696 runs @ 24.96; 281 wickets @ 25.88)

12. Justin Kemp (5,871 runs @ 35.36; 192 wickets @ 27.08)

That's a ridiculous team. It'd beat most Test teams in the world IMO, and it has the best "tail" of all time. It's a wonder South Africa are any good at all having lost all that quality.. and it doesn't even take players like Strauss and Prior into consideration.

Though Mclaren is going back to SA so Nel could come in for him.
Stolen from elsewhere.

[TT Boy]

Only bothers me because part of the thing of supporting England, is supporting players who come from your country.

[TT Boy]

Over half of that squad still play cricket in South Africa and none of them were disowned. They all had international/domestic contracts prior to leaving and most of them still do.

And it isn't like South African didn't get good value out of them. How many opportunities did Rudolph, van Jaarsveld and Human get to consolidate their national positions? And Rudolph is apparently getting another go soon...

That side couldn't perform when they had even better cricketers like Pollock, Donald and Kallis playing with them, how could they do it now?

[Demon43]

its a bloody joke you should have to play for the country your born in strauss and prior a bit of an exception but peitersen and trott are a joke they represented their country at a junior level so they should have to play for their country

[SJS]

I think with the world having become as small as it has, worrying about these issues in this time and age is really very surprising.

If this is how we feel in the 21st century, surely those who played Ranji in the 19th were far more enlightened than us.

[wpdavid]

Originally Posted by TT Boy

No issue with Strauss, Prior et cetera. They were educated here and were produced by our system.

Playing cricketers who couldn't speak English until they were 20 is another thing though.

or those who have represented another country at a lower level.

Obviously I'm completely in favour of Trott right now, but the prospect of and England side featuring lots of guys who've changed nationaility as a career move doesn't thrill me.

[oitoitoi]

Originally Posted by marcussjd9

Here's a team of South Africans playing County Cricket who have "disowned" South Africa, with accompanying First Class records.

1. Boeta Dippenaar (10,695 runs @ 41.45)
2. Jacques Rudolph (10,931 runs @ 44.43; 58 wickets @ 41.51)
3. Martin van Jaarsveld (15,021 runs @ 45.38)
4. Kevin Pietersen (11,026 runs @ 50.81; 61 wickets @ 52.93)
5. Dale Benkenstein (12,486 runs @ 46.07; 87 wickets @ 36.11)
6. Jonathan Trott (8,204 runs @ 43.87; 50 wickets @ 45.68)
7. Nic Pothas (10,354 runs @ 41.91; 597 dismissals)
8. Andrew Hall (6,210 runs @ 34.69; 492 wickets @ 25.71)
9. Nicky Boje (8,244 runs @ 34.32; 545 wickets @ 32.17)
10. Ryan McLaren (2,533 runs @ 27.23; 248 wickets @ 24.78)
11. Johan van der Wath (2696 runs @ 24.96; 281 wickets @ 25.88)

12. Justin Kemp (5,871 runs @ 35.36; 192 wickets @ 27.08)

That's a ridiculous team. It'd beat most Test teams in the world IMO, and it has the best "tail" of all time. It's a wonder South Africa are any good at all having lost all that quality.. and it doesn't even take players like Strauss and Prior into consideration.

Though Mclaren is going back to SA so Nel could come in for him.
Stolen from elsewhere.

No it wouldn't, it would certainly win the championship with ease and possibly be competitive at test level. Rudolph is a damn good player these days, Mclaren's almost certainly worth a few ODI's at least. The others are has beens who've been usurped in the pecking order I'm afraid.

I guess the problem is what Atherton mentioned on Sky, international cricket is about testing a one country's domestic cricket system against another's, and with South African trained players playing for England it's not really doing that anymore. Also it's incredibly worrying for England's future that the South African players who couldn't make it in South Africa are being picked or considered for England ahead of English players with alarming regularity. As he said regarding Trott's selection, surely there is a young English batsmen in the counties good enough to be a decent international batsman?

[Briony]

I think that Rudolph, van der Wath and Hall are all, along with McLaren returning to SA domestic cricket with the first two available to play for SA again, likewise McLaren if good enough. Kieswetter and Malan look lost to them though. Majola said something about them trying to play their kids young to qualify them to keep them out of the clutches of the rapacious England.

[Lillian Thomson]

Originally Posted by shivfan

I guess English cricket has a lot to thank the end of apartheid for!

Not really. If the ban hadn't been lifted some of the Pollock's, Kallis's or Donald's of this world might have played for England instead. Having said that I don't agree with non Englishmen playing for England unless they come here as children and were brought up and learned their cricket here. Just conveniently changing nationality for the sake of playing Test cricket with no affinity for the Country shouldn't be allowed.