India Breaks it Finally !!

[Pratters]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

Hardly amazing, how many of the touring teams would have been better than the hosts? India have never had a pace attack as good as this one, and NZ are as weak in tests as they've been for a while. Hell, i don't think India have ever actually had as good a team as this one. Any other contenders?

Originally Posted by Dissector

If we do manage to close the deal in this test series it will be quite a satisfying win. Not only will it be the first series win in New Zealand for over 40 years but it will be the first time we have beaten them in a test series this decade. With that India will have beaten every team at least once in this decade. We achieved this feat in the 70's IIRC but only with a Packer-weakened Australian team in 1979 and of course no South Africa. When you consider that India has won abroad in Pakistan, England and West Indies and been highly competitive in Australia and South Africa this is unquestionably our best decade of test cricket ever.

1971 team is still better IMO but if we carry on like this for 8 month-2 years, this might well be our best all time side

[silentstriker]

What did the 1971 team do that the recent Indian team hasn't?

[Pratters]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

What did the 1971 team do that the recent Indian team hasn't?

Win against the English side which was the best in the business back then arguably and win against a strong Windies side, both at their own back yard. Like it or not, we couldn't beat Australia in Australia or South Africa in South Africa.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by Pratters

1971 team is still better IMO but if we carry on like this for 8 month-2 years, this might well be our best all time side

Maybe not- you're looking in terms of achievements though. I'm looking in terms of quality and i think this Indian side's as good as any they've had.

[Pratters]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

Maybe not- you're looking in terms of achievements though. I'm looking in terms of quality and i think this Indian side's as good as any they've had.

In the end, it is performances you can translate from the talent you possess which matters. So it has to be looked at from the performances rather than the talent view point.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by Pratters

In the end, it is performances you can translate from the talent you possess which matters. So it has to be looked at from the performances rather than the talent view point.

Pffft. Why does it "have to" exactly? What's unreasonable about making a basic statement on the quality of a side?

[Precambrian]

Originally Posted by Athlai

gagfc

He is value. Don't be harsh.

[Pratters]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

Pffft. Why does it "have to" exactly? What's unreasonable about making a basic statement on the quality of a side?

Talent doesn't mean it is a better side if it doesn't translate into performances.

[Pratters]

I agree that this is one of the two best Indian sides ever. Not just the best yet. That would take a bit more time to achieve, if at all they do achieve it.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by Pratters

Talent doesn't mean it is a better side if it doesn't translate into performances.

You're just being pedantic. That's utterly and completely irrelevant to the initial point i was trying to make.

[Salamuddin]

They've easily got the best seam attack India have ever put on the park IMO.

Munaf, Zaheer and Ishant - quite a decent pace attack IMO.

[Pratters]

Originally Posted by Pratters

1971 team is still better IMO but if we carry on like this for 8 month-2 years, this might well be our best all time side

Originally Posted by Uppercut

Maybe not- you're looking in terms of achievements though. I'm looking in terms of quality and i think this Indian side's as good as any they've had.

Originally Posted by Pratters

In the end, it is performances you can translate from the talent you possess which matters. So it has to be looked at from the performances rather than the talent view point.

Originally Posted by Uppercut

You're just being pedantic. That's utterly and completely irrelevant to the initial point i was trying to make.

It is exactly the point we were discussing.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by Pratters

No it is exactly the point we were discussing.

I only said they were best in the context that it shouldn't be a surprise when they beat New Zealand. What do past achievements have to do with how likely they are to win a match tomorrow? All that matters is how good they are at winning now.

[Pratters]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

I only said they were best in the context that it shouldn't be a surprise when they beat New Zealand. What do past achievements have to do with how likely they are to win a match tomorrow? All that matters is how good they are at winning now.

Okay a fair enough view point though I wouldn't look at it that way while judging the best Indian side.

[Salamuddin]

Originally Posted by SJS

Thats right.

If you make batting tracks, India could pile up big runs but did not have the fire power to get 20 wickets. If you make tracks to suit pacers, India would be bundled out but not be able to retaliate.

Today the roles are reversed.

By the way, its interesting to note that in 1967 India won the series and the bowlers who did the job for them were

Player          W	5w	 Best  	Avg   	S/R
Prasanna, EAS   24	2	 6/94	18.79	54.04
Bedi, B S	16	1	 6/127	23.19	70.31
Nadkarni, R G	14	1	 6/43	17.93	81.79

In 1976 the spinners were declining. Prasanna was in the 14th year of a 16 year long career and Chandra in his 12th of 15. Yet these two bowled well enough to allow India to draw the series 1-1.

Player   	W	Best	5w	Avg      S/R
Prasanna, EAS	11	 8/76	1	20.27  51.64
Chandrasekhar	11	 6/94	1	26.73  65.36

Makes you wonder about the modern day great spinners of India doesn't it. These guys did it with next to no help from the seamers. There wasn't even a solitary Kapil Dev in sight let alone three fast medium to medium fast bowlers in the side and a couple waiting on the sidelines.

Didn't someone say something in another thread about spinners not being effective. These guys were. You just have to be THAT good.

Those were uncovered wickets though weren't they that India played on 67/68 ?
If so, You'd have to think Harbhajan and Kumble would have been a right royal handful on those wickets as well.