Ramnaresh Sarwan- ODI batsman

[thierry henry]

Just seeing Richard and others debating Sarwan as a test player- i.e. is he mediocre or just plain crap- and I feel compelled to start a thread about his eye-catching ODI record.

Sarwan's ODI average of 44.38 from a decent number of games is bordering on the remarkable. That's pretty much as good as ODI batting averages get, Hussey and Bevan aside, and he combines it with a decent strike-rate as well- not amazing, but good enough for it to not really detract from the outstanding average.

Really, with the exception of Hussey and Bevan (middle order players with a lot of not-outs and freaky averages) and the likes of Tendulkar and Richards (combining a 40+ average with an excellent strike-rate- very, very rare) Sarwan's ODI record is fit for comparison with anyone. And what's more, REMOVING THE MINNOWS DOES NOT SUBSTANTIALLY DIMINISH HIS RECORD.

Sarwan is a player I've always rather liked watching bat (I remember watching his 80-odd against NZ at the 2003 World Cup, the first time I'd really noticed him and thinking he reeked of class), but his reputation has not exactly matched his ODI record as his career has gone on. I understand he hasn't quite scaled the expected heights in test cricket, but credit where credit's due for his ODI performances, surely?

What am I missing here? How is Sarwan anything other than on a path to greatness as an ODI player, and currently one of the world's best?

 

[Athlai]

I guess a lot of it comes down to how his strike rate (76.81) is rather average overall whereas most 'legendary' ODI players had prolific strike rates.

Really underrated though but still doesn't strike me as the kind of player who will individually take the game away from you. Just a player who will reliably set a solid platform for his teammates.

 

[thierry henry]

I guess a lot of it comes down to how his strike rate (76.81) is rather average overall whereas most 'legendary' ODI players had prolific strike rates.

That's possibly a reason, but for me not a very valid one- look at all players who average 40+ over 100+ games, and (a) they're probably almost all regarded as great, or at least world class, ODI players, and (b) Sarwan's strike rate will still look pretty acceptable.

For example, Ricky Ponting's strike rate has only just gone above 80, but has been high 70s most of his career.

Really underrated though but still doesn't strike me as the kind of player who will individually take the game away from you. Just a player who will reliably set a solid platform for his teammates.

Yeah, you could argue for example that he hasn't scored many centuries, but that pretty much applies to all ODI non-openers doesn't it?

The mark of an outstanding ODI middle-order bat is consistent runscoring at a decent clip, right?

 

[NUFAN]

Sarwan certainly does slip under the radar a bit. He's so consistent in ODIs while in Test Cricket, consistency is something that he's searching for.

His stats would indicate that he'd be a great chance to make a current World XI, I don't think many would pick him though, he'd be in the running for a berth in a World 2nd XI IMO.

Regarding his strike rate, there are many times where he basically has to rebuild the innings or play second fiddle to a sizzling Chris Gayle, I don't think his Strike Rate is too bad at all really.

 

[Jono]

This has been discussed on CW for a few times. To me, he's just been overshadowed by Gayle, Lara and Chanderpaul.

Ask most cricket fans, including many on CW, I bet they'll say Gayle is the best West Indies ODI batsman.

 

[roseboy64]

What is quite interesting is that early on in his career he wasn't thought of as much in ODers IIRC. Heard talk that he wouldn't be able to adapt for ODIs and that heshould just be a Test player. Think it was because of how he was batting at that time when he came into the Test team. Then again it could be that he was just playing that way because of his ust coming into the team and also having to early in his career play innings when the team was in trouble and he had to dig in.

 

[thierry henry]

This has been discussed on CW for a few times. To me, he's just been overshadowed by Gayle, Lara and Chanderpaul.

Ask most cricket fans, includiang many on CW, I bet they'll say Gayle is the best West Indies ODI batsman.

True....sorry, I never saw any of the previous threads on Sarwan's ODI awesomeness.

Surely he is a better ODI bat than Shiv? I know Shiv is a demigod around here, but Sarwan has him on average and strike-rate pretty comfortably....

I can see how Sarwan might be comparable or slightly below Gayle, but Gayle (like Sarwan) is a truly world class ODI bat, yet also a barely adequate test bat.

 

[thierry henry]

Another question....Sarwan seems to have played less ODIs than would be expected for an 8+ year career, has he been dropped for a number of games in the past (despite his consistently good record)?

 

[Athlai]

True....sorry, I never saw any of the previous threads on Sarwan's ODI awesomeness.

Surely he is a better ODI bat than Shiv? I know Shiv is a demigod around here, but Sarwan has him on average and strike-rate pretty comfortably....

I can see how Sarwan might be comparable or slightly below Gayle, but Gayle (like Sarwan) is a truly world class ODI bat, yet also a barely adequate test bat.

Last 2 years:

Chanderpaul 1535 runs @ 69.77 SR 71.66
Gayle 1297 runs @ 41.83 SR 87.10
Sarwan 848 runs @ 44.63 SR 76.88

I'd say that recently both Chanders and Gayle have played better than Sarwan and Chanderpaul is basically an all powerful demi-God with the bat. 69.77 holy **** I was NOT expecting that.

 

[roseboy64]

Yep along with injuries. Think he missed most of 2007 IIRC. Also, remember that he was dropped for a series or two for some off the field issues.

 

[thierry henry]

Last 2 years:

Chanderpaul 1535 runs @ 69.77 SR 71.66
Gayle 1297 runs @ 41.83 SR 87.10
Sarwan 848 runs @ 44.63 SR 76.88

I'd say that recently both Chanders and Gayle have played better than Sarwan and Chanderpaul is basically an all powerful demi-God with the bat. 69.77 holy **** I was NOT expecting that.

Amazing they can be so bad with 3 such good (ODI) batsmen

 

[Zinzan]

For some reason I've always rated him kind-of 2nd tier, despite his amazing record, I certainly wouldn't rate him much higher than someone like Astle even though both his average & strike-rate are superior. Not entirely sure I can explain why either tbh

 

[Jono]

True....sorry, I never saw any of the previous threads on Sarwan's ODI awesomeness.

Surely he is a better ODI bat than Shiv? I know Shiv is a demigod around here, but Sarwan has him on average and strike-rate pretty comfortably....

I can see how Sarwan might be comparable or slightly below Gayle, but Gayle (like Sarwan) is a truly world class ODI bat, yet also a barely adequate test bat.

Sorry didn't mean to imply that you couldn't make this thread. Was more trying to suggest you weren't alone in your confusion as to why Sarwan was underrated by most cricket fans (casual and obsessed) as a ODI batsman.

Sarwan's random disappearances (injuries and being dropped) have probably not helped. He was captain one day, then suddenly not again. Its easy to get lost in all that.

Also wouldn't mind knowing how Sarwan has done in the last 2 World Cups, Champion Trophies (not that the mean much, but its a world stage) and against Australia in ODIs.

 

[_Ed_]

Amazing they can be so bad with 3 such good (ODI) batsmen

And it's been their batting (and fielding to be fair) that has let them down so far in this series! They were 5 down when rain intervened in Queenstown, their batsmen did their best to stuff up a small chase in Christchurch and they were bundled out for 128 on a far from terrible pitch in Wellington.

 

[Athlai]

WI Batting last two years
Scored 9253 runs
@ 29.18

Now lets remove

Chanderpaul 1535 runs @ 69.77 SR 71.66 32 I 10 NO
Gayle 1297 runs @ 41.83 SR 87.10 35 I 4 NO
Sarwan 848 runs @ 44.63 SR 76.88 23 I 4 NO
BIG 3 3680 @ 52.11

West Indies without them Scored 5843 runs @ 23.85

Well there's your problem.

 

[Richard]

Sarwan in ODIs is a bit like Jayawardene in Tests - just slips under the radar.

Must be said though that Lara for the most part wasted his ODI talent in the 2nd half(ish) of his career and Sarwan was probably better than him in the format virtually throughout Sarwan's career. The fact that Sarwan wasn't and never will be a patch on even the lesser Lara of 1996/97-2001 in the Test match arena, never mind the brilliant Lara of 1992-1996 and 2001/02-2005/06 probably blurs that.

Either way, I can't ever remember a ODI series where Sarwan has genuinely disappointed. But nor do I remember West Indies' ODI series with any great attention-to-detail as they've just been a team attracting precious little attention in recent times.

 

[thierry henry]

Sorry didn't mean to imply that you couldn't make this thread. Was more trying to suggest you weren't alone in your confusion as to why Sarwan was underrated by most cricket fans (casual and obsessed) as a ODI batsman.

Sarwan's random disappearances (injuries and being dropped) have probably not helped. He was captain one day, then suddenly not again. Its easy to get lost in all that.

Also wouldn't mind knowing how Sarwan has done in the last 2 World Cups, Champion Trophies (not that the mean much, but its a world stage) and against Australia in ODIs.

He has a good record against basically everyone except Australia, I think. That obviously counts against him in terms of getting wider recognition, but is not a valid reason for not rating him for mine.

 

[_Ed_]

Also wouldn't mind knowing how Sarwan has done in the last 2 World Cups, Champion Trophies (not that the mean much, but its a world stage) and against Australia in ODIs.

I remember at least one superb innings he had in the 2003 World Cup. At least I remember it as being superb, because he got a terrible hit on the head and had to retire hurt, but came back and batted on.

 

[Uppercut]

Amazing they can be so bad with 3 such good (ODI) batsmen

They're not THAT bad, they've won ODI series against England and Sri Lanka fairly recently. Much worse in tests anyway.

 

[Richard]

I remember at least one superb innings he had in the 2003 World Cup. At least I remember it as being superb, because he got a terrible hit on the head and had to retire hurt, but came back and batted on.

Yeah, that was against Dilhara Fernando.

Was commented at the time that it was quite the role-reversal, a Sri Lankan quick bowler battering a West Indian batsman into retiring hurt. IIRR, it was no mere blow but a blood wound to the temple, the very worst kind.

Yet he came back and came not within a million miles of winning the game.

Was dropped by Atapattu, though, as I remember.