BCCI cut ties with MRF Pace Foundation

[Manee]

But he is not exactly being replaced. The MRF Pace Academy was always an unofficial venture and the BCCI never officially supported it as an official acdemy.

 

[Top_Cat]

But he is not exactly being replaced. The MRF Pace Academy was always an unofficial venture and the BCCI never officially supported it as an official acdemy.

I know the bureaucratic reasons but I doubt Lillee will see it that way. I strongly suspect Lillee will take it that the BCCI don't think they need him any more and feel a bit slighted.

 

[Manee]

I disagree, the MRF Pace Foundation has made numerous offers to become official for the BCCI and the BCCI have refused or not answered each time, I feel that Lillee is there for more of a private business and philanthropic way than to increase his standing to become the Indian bowling coach.

 

[Sanz]

Any sensible and smart coach/cricketer will stay away from BCCI, if he wants to be treated with respect and dignity.

 

[Manee]

Lillee could work for the devil and his coaching would still be treated with dignity and respect.

 

[ret]

MRF Coach - Some noname called DK Lillee
BCCI Bowling Coach - B Arun.

I mean isn't this a no brainer ? Why does BCCI need MRF pace foundation now that it has hired the greatest bowling coach ever. B Arun, you are the man.

Any sensible and smart coach/cricketer will stay away from BCCI, if he wants to be treated with respect and dignity.

do you know what you type

 

[GermanShepherd]

Ok as a former Chennai resident, I wanna say a couple of things here:

1) LIllee was NEVER the main coach at the MRF. He used to rock up for 3-4 weeks max in JUly to provide consulting advice to the trainees.
I'm not saying that Lillee's advice wasn't useful or that he didn't know his stuff - however, the MRF academy did and could function without his input. I would actually say that TA Sekhar had a greater role in the development of a lot of the aforementioned Indian bowlers than Lillee.
2) The MRF was the brainchild of Ravi Mammen - the son of the MRF Company chairman. It was always a private enterprise from when it started in 1989 and never in any way affiliated whatsoever with the BCCI.
3) I don't necessarily see the BCCI started a pace wing at the NCA as a bad thing - there needed to be some sort of officially sanctioned mechanism for coaching fast bowlers and if that's the NCA pace wing, then so be it.
If b Arun is going to head it, then it is not a bad choice. ARun was a protege of Sekhar and he has acummulated a wealth of coaching experience at the MRF, the NCA and in the Ranji trophy.
He is quite well regarded in India's coaching community.

 

[Arjun]

Name one genuinely good pace bowler from MRF Pace Foundation to play for India.

Srinath is the obvious one. But who else? Nobody. That academy has provided a lot of good pacers to other teams, but India, the place where it is based, has got nobody from there. You compare the top international products from there with the top Indian products, and you get a hint. All India have are some 130k+ seam-and-swing bowlers who are sitting ducks on flat decks.

 

[Sanz]

Name one genuinely good pace bowler from MRF Pace Foundation to play for India.

Srinath is the obvious one. But who else? Nobody. That academy has provided a lot of good pacers to other teams, but India, the place where it is based, has got nobody from there. You compare the top international products from there with the top Indian products, and you get a hint. All India have are some 130k+ seam-and-swing bowlers who are sitting ducks on flat decks.

MRF Pace Academy's job is to identify and groom fast bowlers for India. Once they are ready for International Cricket and get drafted into the team India, it is BCCI that is responsible for their success and failure.

Since MRF pace foundation came, India has had Vivek Razdan, Salil Ankola, J Srinath, Venkatesh Prasad, Zaheer Khan, Munaf Patel, S Sreesanth, Ajit Agarkar, Irfan Pathan to name a few.

And please tell us about the fast bowlers that have come out of the BCCI system ?

 

[Sanz]

I don't necessarily see the BCCI started a pace wing at the NCA as a bad thing - there needed to be some sort of officially sanctioned mechanism for coaching fast bowlers and if that's the NCA pace wing, then so be it.

So Officially sanctioning MRF pace academy is a good thing ?

If b Arun is going to head it, then it is not a bad choice. ARun was a protege of Sekhar and he has acummulated a wealth of coaching experience at the MRF, the NCA and in the Ranji trophy.
He is quite well regarded in India's coaching community.

Quite well regarded by whom ? It has been rumored that he quit on Bengal team after their poor performance last season. Also ask Bengal batsmen about his coaching skills, you will get your answer.

 

[silentstriker]

Name one genuinely good pace bowler from MRF Pace Foundation to play for India.

Srinath is the obvious one. But who else? Nobody. That academy has provided a lot of good pacers to other teams, but India, the place where it is based, has got nobody from there. You compare the top international products from there with the top Indian products, and you get a hint. All India have are some 130k+ seam-and-swing bowlers who are sitting ducks on flat decks.

But they can't magically make a 130kph bowler into a 150kph bowler. It's not their fault that this is what they have to work with.

 

[Top_Cat]

Name one genuinely good pace bowler from MRF Pace Foundation to play for India.

Srinath is the obvious one. But who else? Nobody. That academy has provided a lot of good pacers to other teams, but India, the place where it is based, has got nobody from there. You compare the top international products from there with the top Indian products, and you get a hint. All India have are some 130k+ seam-and-swing bowlers who are sitting ducks on flat decks.

Who all either started off their careers well (Agarkar, Prasad, etc.) and tapered-off through injury or poor form or were very highly regarded at their time at the academy and, again, tapered off (Zaheer Khan, who's showing a resurgence, Sreesanth, Patel, etc.). So who do you blame?

Sanz is right; MRF has produced the goods, supplying India with prima facie excellent pace bowlers. It's when they get into the team and are handled by the BCCI that they fall over. MRF cannot be blamed for that and getting rid of them for some silly 'consistency of message' argument will likely just reenforce mediocrity and weaken India's pace stocks. There's a term for it; groupthink. The BCCI are the poster-child for it.

It would be interesting to see what the Aussie system would have done with a quick like Patel because the Indian system seems to have stuffed him around.

 

[Arjun]

MRF Pace Academy's job is to identify and groom fast bowlers for India. Once they are ready for International Cricket and get drafted into the team India, it is BCCI that is responsible for their success and failure.

Since MRF pace foundation came, India has had Vivek Razdan, Salil Ankola, J Srinath, Venkatesh Prasad, Zaheer Khan, Munaf Patel, S Sreesanth, Ajit Agarkar, Irfan Pathan to name a few.

And please tell us about the fast bowlers that have come out of the BCCI system ?

The BCCI knows next to nothing about pace bowling, and that's a no-brainer.

That's why they needed the MRF academy's help to get some real pace in the team. But where is that real pace? The only one with real pace was Srinath, but once he lost it, he lost his edge, as can be seen in the last few years of his career.

And the rest? Zaheer, maybe, but he wasn't as fast as Srinath- a distant second. All those bowlers were hardly express, and the lack of pace translated into a lack of penetration. We saw them go back to this academy several times, and it has helped little.

India took 30 years to find Kapil Dev, another 25 years to find Srinath, and found Ishant after as much as twelve years. Clearly, this academy has contributed nothing as far as a genuine pace bowler is concerned. When you compare the top international bowlers from the academy with the top Indian bowlers, there is a difference.

 

[Arjun]

But they can't magically make a 130kph bowler into a 150kph bowler. It's not their fault that this is what they have to work with.

They can, scientifically, get the pace of a young bowler at 135+ clocking 140+ to stay in the higher 140s consistently, so that he can put it to good use rather than try to bowl for pace and bowl rubbish, or bowl good stuff at medium pace that's of no use.

They obviously haven't.

 

[Arjun]

Who all either started off their careers well (Agarkar, Prasad, etc.) and tapered-off through injury or poor form or were very highly regarded at their time at the academy and, again, tapered off (Zaheer Khan, who's showing a resurgence, Sreesanth, Patel, etc.). So who do you blame?

Sanz is right; MRF has produced the goods, supplying India with prima facie excellent pace bowlers. It's when they get into the team and are handled by the BCCI that they fall over. MRF cannot be blamed for that and getting rid of them for some silly 'consistency of message' argument will likely just reenforce mediocrity and weaken India's pace stocks. There's a term for it; groupthink. The BCCI are the poster-child for it.

It would be interesting to see what the Aussie system would have done with a quick like Patel because the Indian system seems to have stuffed him around.

Prima Facie Excellent Bowlers? That's tough to find in recent Indian teams.

The BCCI are mere administrators, not captains, coaches and consultants rolled in as well. They don't try to ruin a fast bowler's career in any way. There are others who are guilty of that.

When these bowlers struggle to take wickets, then lose their places, they go back to the academy. They come back, but again, it's the same old weaknesses. It doesn't seem to end.

The Indian team has lost Zaheer Khan, Ashish Nehra, Balaji, Irfan, Sreesanth and several others from this academy. Clearly, they could have dome more to keep these bowlers in action a lot longer?

 

[nightprowler10]

do you know what you type

The first post was obviously filled with sarcasm directed towards the BCCI.

 

[Sanz]

India took 30 years to find Kapil Dev, another 25 years to find Srinath, and found Ishant after as much as twelve years. Clearly, this academy has contributed nothing as far as a genuine pace bowler is concerned. When you compare the top international bowlers from the academy with the top Indian bowlers, there is a difference.

Kapil Dev was not found by BCCI. BCCI system had told him that India didn't produce fast bowlers.

Difference is there and that is because of BCCI. MRF has been producing talents after talents, only for the BCCI to waste it.


Lastly Ishant Sharma has done nothing to be counted among the likes of Kapil Srinath etc.

 

[Sanz]

The BCCI knows next to nothing about pace bowling, and that's a no-brainer.

That's why they needed the MRF academy's help to get some real pace in the team. But where is that real pace? The only one with real pace was Srinath, but once he lost it, he lost his edge, as can be seen in the last few years of his career.

And the rest? Zaheer, maybe, but he wasn't as fast as Srinath- a distant second. All those bowlers were hardly express, and the lack of pace translated into a lack of penetration. We saw them go back to this academy several times, and it has helped little.

Academy can only offer help. It is upto the cricketers and BCCI to work on that help. Playing in 500 matches doesn't help much either. In the peak summer bowlers are made to play a useless tournament in Asia Cup, how is it going help.

 

[Sanz]

Clearly, they could have dome more to keep these bowlers in action a lot longer?

They have done enough without any kind of support and recognition from BCCI.

 

[Arjun]

Kapil Dev was not found by BCCI. BCCI system had told him that India didn't produce fast bowlers.

Difference is there and that is because of BCCI. MRF has been producing talents after talents, only for the BCCI to waste it.


Lastly Ishant Sharma has done nothing to be counted among the likes of Kapil Srinath etc.

The BCCI has no system for fast bowlers. They're mere administrators. The selectors, coach and captain are also involved. They are the ones who are 'wasting' pace talents, but again, BCCI or MRF, whoever controls the system, there is no real pace.