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View Poll Results: Who is the better bowler?

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  • Lillee

    20 25.97%
  • Hadlee

    46 59.74%
  • I don't know

    4 5.19%
  • It is Manoj Prabhakar

    7 9.09%
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Thread: Who's better, Lillee or Hadlee?

  1. #16
    International Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    i always have lillee in my all time team but my mind has always maintaned hadlee was the better bowler, albeit marginally.

    will give it a day before voting

  2. #17
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    This is an interesting point. Others would argue that Lillee or whoever was better because they had more competition for wickets. Now, Chatfield and Cairns both averaged 32. This isn't brilliant but its not bad either. They had a fair amount of 5-fers between them (cbf looking it up atm). They were decent bowlers, not rubbish, not great, just good decent bowlers (though Chatfield in ODIs was an absolute gun).

    So really whilst Hadlee was the star (and as an all time great that isn't surprising) the others were good bowlers who nabbed 5-fers at reasonable intervals and ensured that, if Hadlee ever had a rare bad day, they got the job done and when Hadlee was on fire they kept the pressure on at the other end.
    I've always believed the "how good was the rest of the attack?" argument is overstated. There are both advantages and disadvantages to being a vastly superior bowler to the rest of your attack. And it's not like Hadlee, as pointed-out, had complete novices around him all career. Early on, in fact, he bowled with as good a bowler as Richard Collinge, plus his brother and IIRR Bruce Taylor too.
    Fred Tetanus likes this.
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  3. #18
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Forgot Collinge. never knew he bowled alongside Bruce Taylor though.
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  4. #19
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I have to say, though, I foresee a pretty depressing case of almost all Aussies voting Lillee and almost all Kiwis voting Hadlee. It'll be more interesting to see who gets the votes from "neutrals".

    As of this post, Hadlee was ahead fairly comfortably.
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  5. #20
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I have to say, though, I foresee a pretty depressing case of almost all Aussies voting Lillee and almost all Kiwis voting Hadlee. It'll be more interesting to see who gets the votes from "neutrals".

    As of this post, Hadlee was ahead fairly comfortably.
    Haha, yeah I had a look at who voted. I think we can discount my vote, SSTs vote and Kazo's vote purely because really, would we ever vote for the other?

  6. #21
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Even people talk about Hadlee's lack of pace compared to Lillee, Hadlee himself early on in his career had a fair bit of pace about him, but he as he got older and wiser, he decided to cut down on his pace (which was something that did not go down to well at the time) and try and work out batsmen and use his skills to get them out, rather then rely on pace to get batsmen out. I guess it did work for him in the end he was able to enjoy a long career relatively injury free (compared to Lillee).

    Anyway I always thought Malcolm Marshall was more or less considered the greatest fast bowler ever, if he wasn't then he sure wasn't far off it IMO.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    Forgot Collinge. never knew he bowled alongside Bruce Taylor though.

    He certainly did in England in 1973 but they were at opposite ends of their careers.

  8. #23
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    (BWL)Richard Collinge average: 29.25
    (ALL) Bruce Taylor average: 26.60 (bat average 20.40)

    Not bad. Very good actualy. I know its a basic way of looking at the two but its interesting, to me anyway.

  9. #24
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    Even people talk about Hadlee's lack of pace compared to Lillee, Hadlee himself early on in his career had a fair bit of pace about him, but he as he got older and wiser, he decided to cut down on his pace (which was something that did not go down to well at the time) and try and work out batsmen and use his skills to get them out, rather then rely on pace to get batsmen out. I guess it did work for him in the end he was able to enjoy a long career relatively injury free (compared to Lillee).
    I have read that Hadlee's decision to cut down on pace came very early in his international career - after his first international match, IIRC.
    The speed at which a fielding team gets through the innings is overrated.

  10. #25
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    I have read that Hadlee's decision to cut down on pace came very early in his international career - after his first international match, IIRC.
    Nah IIRC he did it after an injury. He cut down on pace and shortened his run up.

    Now, if only Shane Bond had tried that. (admittedly he did cut down on pace and as a result, lasted a full season!!!)

  11. #26
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    (BWL)Richard Collinge average: 29.25
    (ALL) Bruce Taylor average: 26.60 (bat average 20.40)

    Not bad. Very good actualy. I know its a basic way of looking at the two but its interesting, to me anyway.
    No look at Richard Collinge's record is complete without a home\away split. Collinge was an absolutely fantastic bowler at home, but not very often away.

    From what I've heard, he could be a reluctant tourist, as he was very close to his family and did not particularly like leaving them.

    I have little hesitation in suggesting that, were Collinge a more happy tourist, he could be unequivocally New Zealand's second-greatest bowler. Actually, that's a very good idea...
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  12. #27
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    No look at Richard Collinge's record is complete without a home\away split. Collinge was an absolutely fantastic bowler at home, but not very often away.

    From what I've heard, he could be a reluctant tourist, as he was very close to his family and did not particularly like leaving them.

    I have little hesitation in suggesting that, were Collinge a more happy tourist, he could be unequivocally New Zealand's second-greatest bowler.
    Sounds like a Durham bloke we know of...

    EDIT: Jack Cowie is number two. Easily.

  13. #28
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Haha, was actually considering saying that in that post, but decided against. I've always felt this was overstated in Harmison's case - Harmison IMO is simply not particularly good. Collinge categorically was.
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  14. #29
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
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    Manoj Prabhakar getting 3 votes! interesting. To be fair to the man with a moustache, he was a useful all rounder, and India will die for a one like him at this point of time.
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  15. #30
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    There's a few people on CW who always, almost without fail, vote irrelevant-option. Even in the most remarkable of cases.
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