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Thread: All hail Dale Steyn

  1. #16
    International Debutant Slifer's Avatar
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    What better opposition? India easily has the second best batting line up atm and are even more difficult to dislodge at home. My hats offf to Steyn job well done.
    Cause Slifer said so.........!!!!

  2. #17
    State Captain irfan's Avatar
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    Lee's most probably a better quick than Steyn ATM, but I wouldn't be surprised if that gap rapidly closes. Lee's better because he knows how to bowl defensively and can set batsman up more cleverly (Atapattu, Tendulkar etc) than Steyn. Steyn's modus operandi is usually to either bounce out tailenders or bowl those magic banana benders and yorkers rather than rely on consistent line and length.

    If both go through a bad trot you'd back Lee to pull through it because his method is more tried and tested. That being said, for an out and out striker Steyn's stats are magnificent an average of 21 and a strike rate in the mid 30s (all-time best post covered pitches.) There has been a bit of talk on the boards on Steyn still having to prove himself.
    43 wickets in 8 tests should dispel the ' he can't bowl on subcontinental pitches' myth. For me, to prove he's a world class quick he has to go to Australia and get 10+ wickets at a sub-30 avg. If he can do that, there will be no stopping him.

  3. #18
    State Vice-Captain gettingbetter's Avatar
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    Surely even if he doesn't perform all that well in South Africa you can't really write him off. I don't think (not 100% sure) that Lee has that good of a record in England or in the subcontinent. ATM, Steyn is averaging sub in the Indian series and with one more game to go, if he can remain under 25, which is highly likely, he is one his way to being better than Lee.

  4. #19
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    TBH, even though there's been no Tendulkar involved in the last two Tests, he's unlikely to get opposition a hell of a lot stronger than India.

    Certainly don't see England, for instance, coming close to India's skills with the bat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slifer View Post
    What better opposition? India easily has the second best batting line up atm and are even more difficult to dislodge at home. My hats offf to Steyn job well done.
    I don't know about that. Jaffer's a walking wicket. Sehwag is hit and miss. Dravid is out of form. Dhoni can't buy a run. And Ganguly and Laxman are Ganguly and Laxman - relatively inconsistent.

    I'd pick the English lineup, on form. With Tendulkar in, It would be much more even.
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  5. #20
    State Vice-Captain gettingbetter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    I don't know about that. Jaffer's a walking wicket. Sehwag is hit and miss. Dravid is out of form. Dhoni can't buy a run. And Ganguly and Laxman are Ganguly and Laxman - relatively inconsistent.

    I'd pick the English lineup, on form. With Tendulkar in, It would be much more even.
    Jaffer: always been solid in India. Coming of 70 odd.
    Sehwag: coming off 300
    Dravid: one of the best batsmen in the modern era
    Laxman: great Australian summer
    Ganguly: meh
    Dhoni: always been good in challenging situations*

    * Of late it has been only in the ODI format. I do wonder if Kathik would do a better job.

  6. #21
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    I'm think it's a bit strange that Lee is considered so superior to Steyn given the fact that:

    -Lee only really has the last two series on Aussie wickets where he's proven himself as his side's main strike bowler

    -he has never played and performed in the subcontinent like Steyn has

  7. #22
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gettingbetter View Post
    Jaffer: always been solid in India. Coming of 70 odd.
    Sehwag: coming off 300
    Dravid: one of the best batsmen in the modern era
    Laxman: great Australian summer
    Ganguly: meh
    Dhoni: always been good in challenging situations*
    One of the best batsmen of the modern era doesn't say anything about current form. And Dhoni has never been all that good in Tests, as you mention. Sehwag is always hot and cold, and while Jaffer has been solid in India, there is no way he can last against anyone who has pace or if the pitch assists them.

    Considering the pitch in the first Test, it is pretty irrelevent what people scored. Scoring 70 on that pitch is not really a plus - you'd back most FC batsmen to have a great shot at a 50+ score.

  8. #23
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gettingbetter View Post
    Surely even if he doesn't perform all that well in South Africa you can't really write him off. I don't think (not 100% sure) that Lee has that good of a record in England or in the subcontinent. ATM, Steyn is averaging sub in the Indian series and with one more game to go, if he can remain under 25, which is highly likely, he is one his way to being better than Lee.
    Pretty sure Lee's only played 3 Tests in the subcontinent, all against a rabble Pakistan. Nor has he bowled well against England either in England or Australia.
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  9. #24
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    I don't know about that. Jaffer's a walking wicket. Sehwag is hit and miss. Dravid is out of form. Dhoni can't buy a run. And Ganguly and Laxman are Ganguly and Laxman - relatively inconsistent.

    I'd pick the English lineup, on form. With Tendulkar in, It would be much more even.
    OK, then, let's make some comparisons...

    Cook - has proven himself magnificent at bashing rubbish bowling on flat pitches - now he needs to actually show that he can do the job against the seaming ball. I'm absolutely sure that he can - but he needs to, y'know, do it.
    Vaughan - waste of space when he's opening the batting.
    Strauss - waste of space generally, especially at three.
    Pietersen - scored 1 fifty-plus score in 6 Tests the just-finished winter.
    Collingwood - very average batsman, never yet made chanceless scores of note on anything but the very flattest (and often slowest) of pitches.
    Bell - basically read Cook.
    Ambrose - played 3 Tests.

    I'd have India's in an instant over ours right now, though it's fair to say both have their demerits.

    In short, even if we compare the best possible immediate line-ups:
    Jaffer = Strauss (both useless)
    Sehwag > Cook (much as it should be the other way around)
    Dravid > Vaughan
    Tendulkar > Pietersen
    Laxman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Collingwood
    Ganguly > Bell (both been non-seaming-track bullies for most of their careers, though Ganguly's better right now)
    Ambrose vs Dhoni = no real comparison (much as I hope Ambrose may end-up better)
    Last edited by Richard; 09-04-2008 at 07:40 AM.

  10. #25
    State Vice-Captain DaRick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Pretty sure Lee's only played 3 Tests in the subcontinent, all against a rabble Pakistan. Nor has he bowled well against England either in England or Australia.
    Well, he has, but only occassionally ( Lords 2005, Trent Bridge ENG 2nd Innings 2005, Old Trafford ENG 1st Innings 2005, Melbourne and Sydney 2006/07 and at a stretch, Edgbaston 3rd morning 2005).

    On the main topic, yeah, well done to Steyn. I knew he had it in him, even in 2004/2005, when he was just a greenhorn who intermittently bowled jaffas but went for plenty. There was just something about him that I didn't see in other quicks his age...Shaun Tait, for instance.

    By the way, Strauss>Jaffer...not like they're really comparable anymore, although Strauss performed against better opposition on livelier decks from 2004-2005 (?) than Jaffer ever has.

  11. #26
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Undoubtedly, Strauss > Jaffer over their careers, but from the start of 2006 he's been next to useless, and as bad as if not worse than Jaffer.

  12. #27
    Hall of Fame Member TT Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    I'm think it's a bit strange that Lee is considered so superior to Steyn given the fact that:

    -Lee only really has the last two series on Aussie wickets where he's proven himself as his side's main strike bowler

    -he has never played and performed in the subcontinent like Steyn has
    But Steyn has never faced a good batting line-up...

  13. #28
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Until recently, he hadn't. His demolition job at Motera was comfortably the best performance of his career.

  14. #29
    International Captain Woodster's Avatar
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    How long before we're hailing another South African quickie, Morne Morkel. Quick, hostile, tall, potentially up there with Steyn, Lee etc in 12/18 months ?

  15. #30
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Morkel remains thoroughly unconvincing so far - but so did Steyn early in his career. Of course, just because one went from poor to excellent doesn't mean another neccessarily will, but Morkel undoubtedly like Steyn has assets - in his case, great height rather than an excellent seam-position and speed.

    Morkel needs to both gain some extra control and find a way to move the ball away from the right-hander, and if he can do that he'll be one hell of a proposition.

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