Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
Ok, thought not.
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Ian Botham vs Kapil Dev
- Thread starter BhupinderSingh
- Start date
subshakerz
International Coach
Actually, Botham was famous for that, even his first wicket was off a super wide delivery outside off stump that the batsman managed to chop on his stumps.
Still, probably an exagerration.
neville cardus
International Debutant
Bob Willis reckons that the one which Subshakerz mentioned was just about the worst wicket-taking delivery in the game's history (but, then, Willis probably never heard of Bernard Bosanquet).
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Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
Willis obviously didn't see Mohammad Yousuf's wicket against Zimbabwe in the World Cup 2007. I can happily say that I can bowl faster than that
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
but it is really close when you look at the entirety of their careers....
PhoenixFire
International Coach
Yeah, in his prime, Botham was possibly one of the best cricketers ever.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
No possibly about it. A case can be made that, statistically at least, from 1977-81 he was the second best cricketer of all time.
Whether he really was is another matter, but he was unquestionably a phenomenon in those years, and his feats therein are enough for me to consider him Kapil's superior.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Still, I would say no as the peak of his career was so unbelievably brilliant that the later slop is not enough to take away from it.
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
And non-statistically as well, being such a talismanic figure for his team for that four-five years.
subshakerz
International Coach
Botham is one of the hardest players to judge, simply because you're not sure which Botham you are talking about. From 78-82, he was fantastic and a force of nature. From 82-87, he was inconsistent and only produced spurts of all-round brilliance. From 87-92, he was so bad he flat out didn't deserve to be in the side. How do you judge such a cricket overall?
The one big area were Kapil has an advantage is his performance against the West Indies, Botham failed with the bowl and bat despite even playing them at his peak, not even 1 of his 14 centures is against them.
Kapil was conistently pretty good throughout his career, but never great. Botham was all over the board. Hard to say...ah, well, I'll give Botham the edge, I'm assuming he won more matches for his side than Kapil. Closer choice than people think.
The one big area were Kapil has an advantage is his performance against the West Indies, Botham failed with the bowl and bat despite even playing them at his peak, not even 1 of his 14 centures is against them.
Kapil was conistently pretty good throughout his career, but never great. Botham was all over the board. Hard to say...ah, well, I'll give Botham the edge, I'm assuming he won more matches for his side than Kapil. Closer choice than people think.
neville cardus
International Debutant
Better than Bradman, then?
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
Possibly. Not more than McGrath though.Better than Bradman, then?
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
how so? any comparison for an all-time status needs to encompass the whole career, not a peak as substantial as it was...
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
maybe but aa will trump him any day...
archie mac
International Coach
Why? When was that rule passed
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
The difficulty, as I said and someone else reiterated, is that there's no one Botham, really.
There are two at the very least.
One of whom was substantially better than Kapil, one of whom was nowhere near as good.
I just don't see what the point is in trying to put the two together to influence a rating of the other.
When a player changes so dramatically at fairly defined points, you've almost got to rate him as two separate players, AFAIC.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
It wasn't, really, and Bob Willis' description of it (obviously in jest for the greater part) of "got Greg Chappell out with one of the worst deliveries ever bowled in Test-match cricket" is totally harsh.Actually, Botham was famous for that, even his first wicket was off a super wide delivery outside off stump that the batsman managed to chop on his stumps.
It was a nothing ball outside off-stump that should have been left, not the would-be-double-wide it's sometimes portrayed as.
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Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
It's a nice stereotype.
The reality is, though, that caught-down-leg is always rare, there's no way to cause that; and decent batsmen don't often get caught in the covers or indeed anywhere in the outfield, so no bowler will ever get that far if that's the main way he depends on to get wickets.
Anil
Hall of Fame Member
that is the only reasonable way to look at it because longevity/durability/consistency is one of the main points when you decide whether someone is an all-time great...now, botham's impressive career record and his achievements clearly place him in that category but when you talk about a 4 year peak while rating someone 2nd best overall(even if it is for that period), that does not mean a whole lot, a lot of greats have had brilliant stretches in their career...Why? When was that rule passed
archie mac
International Coach
Okay I don't agree, but that explains your position very well
