Rahul Dravid and Ricky Ponting

[sohummisra]

Those posters who are from the sub-continent may be able to comment on this better than I can so I'll throw it up as a point - when Australia go to the sub-continent, they often say that they have to play a more patient game when they are batting (they don't always do it very wel btw). Is that a fair thing to say re. the conditions on the sub-continent? Because if it is, I'm wondering whether that may explain the perception some have as to Dravid being a more cautious player than Ponting. Is it a factor in the way his game/ technique has developed?

Hmm. From what I've seen of cricket in the subcontinent, I wouldn't say there is a real need to be more patient than normal. I think the hardest thing for the Australians is lasting out all 5 days because the conditions are extremely hot and humid. In that regard, they would probably be wanting to be patient so that they don't get out playing a rash shot just because of the heat. Not sure how reasonable or likely that is, though.

Dravid is a cautious batsman by most yardsticks. He definitely has the strokes, but he has been nicknamed "The Wall" because of the stability he provides and the many times he has saved India from the blushes. Dravid doesn't really play big shots--even his fastest innings have come with most shots timed perfectly to the boundary rather than being blasted over it.

And comparison to other batsmen in India shows that it is maybe a unique characteristic of Dravid. His most experienced teammates--Tendulkar, Ganguly and Laxman--are all strokemakers first and would definitely be on a different level of 'caution'.

 

[Beleg]

I think it would have to be Ponting and Yousuf tbh.

Mohammad Yousuf is a couple of classes below both Ponting and Dravid.

Ponting, Dravid, Tendulkar, Inzamam, Kallis, Gilchrist and Hayden are all easily better batsmen than him, for starters.

 

[Richard]

But here's the thing, I am not disputing the chance never comes up, I am disputing the fact that it doesn't come up much. And mostly, when it does, Ponting has more or less wiped out the opposition himself, even if his openers have failed, and he still hasn't had to play that kind of innings. And if he doesn't save it on his own, then he still has batsmen from 4-7 who are capable of still saving that innings. So, it's not like he was batting with his #7 trying to raise a score of 150 on the board and save his team regularly. Australia are rarely in that position.

I know full well they aren't - in fact, I've begun to question why we're even arguing this, really. Ponting hasn't had that many of the situations in question, but equally the number of innings of said stature have been so rare as to say that "he'd put his team in a better position were he to play this sort of knock" doesn't really apply IMO.

 

[Richard]

Because of his ability to score runs on flat.

And often with umpteen dropped catches. IMO people overrate the calibre of Yousuf's play between Dec 2005 and Oct 2006.

 

[bert18]

Ponting has probably won more games off his own bat, this doesn't show up on stats pages

 

[Perm]

Mohammad Yousuf is a couple of classes below both Ponting and Dravid.

Ponting, Dravid, Tendulkar, Inzamam, Kallis, Gilchrist and Hayden are all easily better batsmen than him, for starters.

I'm a massive, massive Gilchrist fan but I wouldn't say that he is easily a better batsman than Yousuf.

 

[Richard]

Certainly hasn't been the last 4 years. In the 4 years before that, yes, but of late, no.

 

[sohummisra]

Ponting has probably won more games off his own bat, this doesn't show up on stats pages

Also what doesn't show up is the efforts of McGrath, Warne, and company in securing the 20 wickets so Ponting can build a good lead. Or wait, maybe that does show up.

 

[Ikki]

I know full well they aren't - in fact, I've begun to question why we're even arguing this, really. Ponting hasn't had that many of the situations in question, but equally the number of innings of said stature have been so rare as to say that "he'd put his team in a better position were he to play this sort of knock" doesn't really apply IMO.

Then, likewise, it should be accepted that when people say Ponting is more dominant, it doesn't apply that "Dravid is rarely in that position, but what makes you think he couldn't do it?".

 

[PhoenixFire]

I'm a massive, massive Gilchrist fan but I wouldn't say that he is easily a better batsman than Yousuf.

Agree with that, I'd probably rate Yousuf as a better batsman than Hayden as well.

 

[Richard]

Then, likewise, it should be accepted that when people say Ponting is more dominant, it doesn't apply that "Dravid is rarely in that position, but what makes you think he couldn't do it?".

I've never said Ponting isn't typically the more dominant - I've said that I don't neccessarily set too much stall by the fact that he is.

 

[Richard]

Agree with that, I'd probably rate Yousuf as a better batsman than Hayden as well.

That's a debatable one, that.

The two have much in common.

The only area Yousuf unquestionably has above Hayden is that he's far, far better-looking in his strokeplay.

 

[open365]

Am i the only one on this board that acctualy likes Hayden as a batsman??

 

[Sanz]

Am i the only one on this board that acctualy likes Hayden as a batsman??

Nope.

 

[Richard]

Am i the only one on this board that acctualy likes Hayden as a batsman??

Even bearing in mind that "like" and "rate" are two different things... no, probably not.

I find it baffling to think that anyone could actually enjoy watching him though.

 

[open365]

Even bearing in mind that "like" and "rate" are two different things... no, probably not.

I find it baffling to think that anyone could actually enjoy watching him though.

I like AND rate.

Dad must have dropped me on my head when i was a baby i guess

 

[Ikki]

Am i the only one on this board that acctualy likes Hayden as a batsman??

No, I rate and like him too. But he has nothing on Hussain.

 

[silentstriker]

I rate him but don't like him.

 

[Richard]

No, I rate and like him too. But he has nothing on Hussain.

Indeed, Hussain is indisputably better-looking and fairly obviously better.

 

[Sanz]

No, I rate and like him too. But he has nothing on Hussain.

Not again !!