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View Poll Results: Has Vaughan become too powerful in the England team?

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  • Yes

    12 38.71%
  • No

    14 45.16%
  • Maybe

    5 16.13%
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Thread: Has Vaughan become too powerful in the England team?

  1. #1
    International Captain Piper's Avatar
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    Has Vaughan become too powerful in the England team?

    Please discuss..
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  2. #2
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Personally I don't think so. He's captain, and from what I can tell that's all he is.
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    He's the skipper and he does a damn fine job IMO.
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  4. #4
    International Captain Piper's Avatar
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    He is a good captain, I'm not disputing that but what I think was wrong was him automatically being picked when he hadn't even played a Test match for 18 months. I'm sure there are young players in the county game who have consistantly made good scores and aren't getting a look into the national side because Vaughan always has to be there. I think it's unfair on the players who play well but because Vaughan is living off his reputation of 5 years ago, aren't getting picked. Yeah he made a hundred at Headingly but he has occasionally made a good score. I don't think he should be picked for the ''he might make a score this time around''. Let's give someone else who has proven their form ago..


  5. #5
    International Coach PhoenixFire's Avatar
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    If anyone deserves to come straight back into the side, it's Vaughan. He was soley responsible in my eyes, for us winning the 2005 Ashes series, and the reason why we lost it 5-0 in '06/'07.
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  6. #6
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Solely? No. There were a good few reasons why we won in 2005. Vaughan's good captaincy was indeed one of them, but only one.

    And similarly, the lack of his captaincy was only one of the reasons we lost so badly in 2006\07. And I honestly think that had he been present for it and everything else been the same we might well have lost by the same margin nonetheless.

  7. #7
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piper View Post
    He is a good captain, I'm not disputing that but what I think was wrong was him automatically being picked when he hadn't even played a Test match for 18 months. I'm sure there are young players in the county game who have consistantly made good scores and aren't getting a look into the national side because Vaughan always has to be there. I think it's unfair on the players who play well but because Vaughan is living off his reputation of 5 years ago, aren't getting picked. Yeah he made a hundred at Headingly but he has occasionally made a good score. I don't think he should be picked for the ''he might make a score this time around''. Let's give someone else who has proven their form ago..
    Equally you could say that it's not fair on Vaughan to have his injury terminate his career. Which is why I was so pleased when he did well on his comeback. He'd not have lost his place ITFP but for injury.

  8. #8
    International Coach PhoenixFire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    And similarly, the lack of his captaincy was only one of the reasons we lost so badly in 2006\07. And I honestly think that had he been present for it and everything else been the same we might well have lost by the same margin nonetheless.
    Obviously England lost because Australia were awesome and England were dire, but I can't help but think that Vaughan would have made up some sort of strategy in the 4th or 5th tests that stopped us from getting whitewashed, something that Flintoff wouldn't be capable of doing. Of course, it's all hypothetical, but it could very well have been different.

  9. #9
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    One of the best strategies might have been getting Hayden and Symonds given lbw when they were out... but oh well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    If anyone deserves to come straight back into the side, it's Vaughan. He was soley responsible in my eyes, for us winning the 2005 Ashes series, and the reason why we lost it 5-0 in '06/'07.
    soley?

    EDIT- I see Richard had the same query.
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  11. #11
    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    I dissagree he's a captain and he's not doing that bad.
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  12. #12
    International Captain Piper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Equally you could say that it's not fair on Vaughan to have his injury terminate his career. Which is why I was so pleased when he did well on his comeback. He'd not have lost his place ITFP but for injury.
    I know. I'm happy Vaughan is injury free four sure () but all I'm saying is maybe they should have waited until he proven his form? Even before his injury he'd only scored the one century for England for a while. I just hope that Vaughany can prove me wrong and regain his form of a few years ago.

  13. #13
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piper View Post
    I know. I'm happy Vaughan is injury free four sure () but all I'm saying is maybe they should have waited until he proven his form? Even before his injury he'd only scored the one century for England for a while. I just hope that Vaughany can prove me wrong and regain his form of a few years ago.


    There were indeed people (tec, for instance) who suggested he should have played a few games before coming back into the Test side. I can sort of see that, but I can also see that not doing so would be "dropping the captain", which opens up a whole new can of worms.

  14. #14
    International Captain Piper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    Obviously England lost because Australia were awesome and England were dire, but I can't help but think that Vaughan would have made up some sort of strategy in the 4th or 5th tests that stopped us from getting whitewashed, something that Flintoff wouldn't be capable of doing. Of course, it's all hypothetical, but it could very well have been different.
    During the 2005 Ashes series, Australia weren't anything like the team they normally are. Plus they had bad decisions go their way (same with England). England were playing well at the same time as Australia weren't. And don't forget, we all nearly had cardiacs on the last day of four of the test matches. Apart from Lord's, you never knew who was gonna win because they were all so close. This years Ashes were a completely different story. Australia were the team that has made them so dominate for so long and England couldn't match that. But I don't think England deserved to loose as heavily as they did. They played better than the white wash suggested. Maybe it would have been different if Vaughan was captain. Maybe it wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference. We'll never know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post


    There were indeed people (tec, for instance) who suggested he should have played a few games before coming back into the Test side. I can sort of see that, but I can also see that not doing so would be "dropping the captain", which opens up a whole new can of worms.
    Haha sorry

  15. #15
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    I don't really know if he has or he hasn't, but I could do without him referring to himself in the third person tho. It's either the sign of a ego running mad or that he's taking too much for granted.

    Plus it's a bit WWE, isn't it? "The best thing for England is a fit Michael Vaughan. You hear that Sarwan? Michael Vaughan is coming for ya".
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