Is mitchell johnson once in generation fast bowler?

[archie mac]

Approximately 10% is gay, too... and I honestly don't recall a single openly gay cricketer. There surely must've been one or two, but well... I think it says a good deal.

That is what I always thought, but was told recently that it is more like 3%

I know of one Test cricketer that they are pretty sure was gay

 

[The Sean]

Aust. cricket history has had very few fast left handers (Whitty, Davidson, Reid, Matthews), I have always wondered why?

In fact world cricket has had a much smaller number of LA fast men compared to LA spinners

Mate, I have a higher appreciation than most of your devotion to the old school.

Which is why I'm stunned that nether JJ Ferris nor WA Johnston rate a mention when the Godlike Power that is Chris Matthews does!

I'm prepared to write it off as an oversight just this once...

 

[archie mac]

Mate, I have a higher appreciation than most of your devotion to the old school.

Which is why I'm stunned that nether JJ Ferris nor WA Johnston rate a mention when the Godlike Power that is Chris Matthews does!

I'm prepared to write it off as an oversight just this once...

What can I say

Although I don't think JJ was that fast, and Bill was not express, but yes I did forget both of them

 

[Craig]

Especially considering that being left handed has the same social stigma as being a homosexual in sport.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Ok, so we count one. Tait? Two, though he has a LOT to prove. Aaaand.....?

Johnson, Tait and Hilfenhaus as a trio of seamers outside the test team (although one of them will have to be picked next summer) is a pretty good start. You'd have to think any of them would make most sides at the moment, except perhaps Hilfenhaus in England because he's not 6'6 or all that fast. There's a reasonable amount of batting support as well, though most of them are mature players (Jaques, Rogers, Hodge etc) and not "up and coming", and Haddin as a keeper-batsmen is extremely good backup. Nothing much in terms of spinners though, after MacGill.

Should be noted that you can't really count "proven" players as "up and coming", so it seems a bit silly to respond to claims of up and coming talent by pointing out that they haven't done much yet. If they had, they wouldn't be up and coming. Tait's been extremely effective in domestic cricket for a few seasons now, which is about all he could have done, with only two international games to his name. Given that he's probably the 5th seamer in line for test selection at the moment, you can't complain.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Johnson, Tait and Hilfenhaus as a trio of seamers outside the test team (although one of them will have to be picked next summer) is a pretty good start. You'd have to think any of them would make most sides at the moment, except perhaps Hilfenhaus in England because he's not 6'6 or all that fast. There's a reasonable amount of batting support as well, though most of them are mature players (Jaques, Rogers, Hodge etc) and not "up and coming", and Haddin as a keeper-batsmen is extremely good backup. Nothing much in terms of spinners though, after MacGill.

Should be noted that you can't really count "proven" players as "up and coming", so it seems a bit silly to respond to claims of up and coming talent by pointing out that they haven't done much yet. If they had, they wouldn't be up and coming. Tait's been extremely effective in domestic cricket for a few seasons now, which is about all he could have done, with only two international games to his name. Given that he's probably the 5th seamer in line for test selection at the moment, you can't complain.

I wasn't being entirely serious. Or at all, for that matter.

That said, I don't see how Hilfenhaus' record would get him into most teams. As impressive as he looked, he hasn't yet partnered it with results at domestic level.

 

[social]

I wasn't being entirely serious. Or at all, for that matter.

That said, I don't see how Hilfenhaus' record would get him into most teams. As impressive as he looked, he hasn't yet partnered it with results at domestic level.

Hilfenhaus is real quality IMO - tall, pacy and bowls outswing with a really strong action

He's the sort of guy u pick on potential being reasonably confident he'll do well at test level - I much prefer him to Tait, who albeit incredibly quick, may not have much longevity

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I wasn't being entirely serious. Or at all, for that matter.

That said, I don't see how Hilfenhaus' record would get him into most teams. As impressive as he looked, he hasn't yet partnered it with results at domestic level.

Leading wicket taker in the Pura Cup this year, and averaging 27. His first class record isn't all that flash yet, but I don't think selections are made solely on that sort of criteria when someone has only played 18 games, and I think he'd be picked on potential in most nations. Obviously it's just speculation, though.

Not entirely convinced he'll be an immediate success at international level, mind. Relies a bit on the ball swinging, and has a bit in common with guys like Hoggard and Anderson who can be erratic. I think he's got the potential to be better than those bowlers, but it's anybody's guess as to whether or not he is yet.

Looks incredibly impressive every game he plays at the moment, at least.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Looks incredibly impressive every game he plays at the moment, at least.

Tbh, I think he looks to have more potential than Tait at the very least. He really impressed me on his ODI debut. He probably wouldn't get picked by the West Indies with that record though, because in general these days the selectors are picking bowlers with negligible experience on potential, or those with excellent records. That said, if Hilfenhaus played in the West Indies domestic competition, he'd probably average about 6 runs less at the very least.

 

[pup11]

Hilfy is a young swing tassie boy and thats something rare in australia, as for johnson he can swing and reverse swing them at 90mph i haven't seen many many left arm bowlers other than akram do that .He also gets that extra bounce from nowhere to suprise the batsman.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I think Hilfenhaus has a lot more in common with Anderson. Bowls a bit too sharp at times to be grouped with a Hoggard-type. Young, outswing and at pretty good clip.

 

[Salamuddin]

Hilfenhaus is real quality IMO - tall, pacy and bowls outswing with a really strong action

He's the sort of guy u pick on potential being reasonably confident he'll do well at test level - I much prefer him to Tait, who albeit incredibly quick, may not have much longevity

Tait will at best be as good as Brett Lee at test level IMO.
Admittedly he can swing it considerable pace, but the accuracy ain't that great.


In any case I'm not sure if the Aussie selectors would want both Lee and Tait in the X1 at the same time.

 

[Salamuddin]

There's a huge myth that Johnson is a 150 kph bowler.......he isn';t.

He's usually high 130's and when he bends his back he can get it up to 90 mph.
I think he'll be a good bowler at test level but he won't be as good as Wasim Akram imo.

I think the Aussies in the future will have a decent attack with Clark, Johnson and HilfenHaus rather than a truly outstanding one when they Had McGrath, Gillespie, Fleming, warne and the likes of Kasper and Reiffel in support.

 

[Salamuddin]

Johnson, Tait and Hilfenhaus as a trio of seamers outside the test team (although one of them will have to be picked next summer) is a pretty good start. You'd have to think any of them would make most sides at the moment, except perhaps Hilfenhaus in England because he's not 6'6 or all that fast.

I don't know how you could make a sweeping stament like that Fuller. None of them are proven performers at test level

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I don't know how you could make a sweeping stament like that Fuller. None of them are proven performers at test level

I never claimed they were. What I'm saying is that a bowler with Tait's FC record in the last 2 or 3 years in the Pura Cup would get a run in most sides, as would a bowler who ticks the boxes that Hilfenhaus does and was in such good form, and a bowler who had 20 odd ODI wickets at a low 20s average like Johnson. As far as a group of young seamers who haven't played test cricket yet is concerned, they're as good as you'll see. I'd imagine at least one or two of them will have successful international careers, but it's just speculation at this point. What isn't speculation is that they have done well so far at domestic level, and in Johnson's case, at international level.

The only bowlers in the current Australian setup who are "proven test performers" are MacGill and perhaps Lee and Clark, because everyone is either past it or hasn't been given a chance yet. It's a ridiculous criteria by which to judge young bowlers. If they were proven there wouldn't be any need to discuss their potential.

 

[adharcric]

Time will tell.

 

[Salamuddin]

I never claimed they were. What I'm saying is that a bowler with Tait's FC record in the last 2 or 3 years in the Pura Cup would get a run in most sides, as would a bowler who ticks the boxes that Hilfenhaus does and was in such good form, and a bowler who had 20 odd ODI wickets at a low 20s average like Johnson. As far as a group of young seamers who haven't played test cricket yet is concerned, they're as good as you'll see. I'd imagine at least one or two of them will have successful international careers, but it's just speculation at this point. What isn't speculation is that they have done well so far at domestic level, and in Johnson's case, at international level.

The only bowlers in the current Australian setup who are "proven test performers" are MacGill and perhaps Lee and Clark, because everyone is either past it or hasn't been given a chance yet. It's a ridiculous criteria by which to judge young bowlers. If they were proven there wouldn't be any need to discuss their potential.

Didn't Tait flop miserably when he played in the English county ?
On the basis of their Pura Cup record, yeah I can see why they'd be considered for the Australian team but don't automaticaly assume that they'd be standouts if they were playing in another country's competition......it's not the first time you've insinuated that.

 

[Richard]

I think the Aussies in the future will have a decent attack with Clark, Johnson and HilfenHaus rather than a truly outstanding one when they Had McGrath, Gillespie, Fleming, warne and the likes of Kasper and Reiffel in support.

Haha... wouldn't that have been a decent attack, eh?

Thing is, though, it never happened. The strongest the attack ever got was in 2003\04 when Kasprowicz finally got in alongside McGrath and Gillespie.

McDermott, Reiffel, Fleming and Gillespie (early on in his career) were so impossibly injury-prone that it was rare for two, never mind three, to get on the park together. McGrath and Fleming only played together for 2 seasons, for instance (in that time Gillespie played with them once), 1998\99 and 1999\2000. Both of them were post-Reiffel, and McGrath and Reiffel didn't play together much. And Kasprowicz was nothing more than a bit-part player (and not an especially good one, at that - though he had his moments) until 2003\04.

Though, for that matter, it wasn't half bad in 1999\2000 when it was McGrath, Fleming, Lee, Warne - because in those days Lee actually appeared to be a pretty decent bowler (with his average of 16 and all).

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Didn't Tait flop miserably when he played in the English county ?

Yeah, but that was some years ago, and before he really started getting great results in domestic cricket in Australia. Like most bowlers his age, Tait's improved in recent years, and you'd be brave to predict he'd go for 10 an over and get dumped after two matches again.

On the basis of their Pura Cup record, yeah I can see why they'd be considered for the Australian team but don't automaticaly assume that they'd be standouts if they were playing in another country's competition......it's not the first time you've insinuated that.

I don't see the problem with insinuating that, really. The Australian domestic system is, for fairly obvious reasons, the toughest in world cricket, and I'd say that's particularly true for bowlers. Obviously it's possible that any given bowler who does well in Australian domestic cricket would flop overseas, and there's some examples of it around (Gillespie last season in England for instance), but I think it's fair to say it's pretty unlikely to happen over an extended period, unless you're talking about moving to totally alien conditions like India or something.

Indeed, I don't think it's relevant either. Tait's record in Australian domestic cricket would see him close to selection for any country. Obviously if he played his domestic cricket in, say, the West Indies and averaged 30+ he'd not be in contention, but he'd be a different bowler, which renders that sort of speculation is pretty meaningless IMO.

Anyway, Tait could be a roaring success or a dismal failure at test level, just like any other player. However, the available evidence in domestic cricket both in terms of his stats and the quality of the competition is that he is a good bowler and has a reasonable chance of succeeding in international level, and so he'd get a run if Austalia didn't have other good options available, and in other countries if they could select him. That's all there is to it.

 

[PhoenixFire]

There's a huge myth that Johnson is a 150 kph bowler.......he isn';t.

He's usually high 130's and when he bends his back he can get it up to 90 mph.
I think he'll be a good bowler at test level but he won't be as good as Wasim Akram imo.

My thoughts exactly. There is no way he was as fast as Lee and Akhtar when he was 17.