***Official*** Pakistan in South Africa

[silentstriker]

Fact is it never happened and Warne sat out for a year.

These 2 should not be near a cricket field and the fact they have not been punished means they are fair game.

Not only did they cheat they got away with it.

And I am not denying any of those statements.....

 

[Langeveldt]

*SHRUG*. Its the tribunal that let them go. The outrage should be directed towards them. The players did something wrong by taking drugs, but not their fault that they weren't banned. Thats like holding a permanant grudge against Warne.

My anger is directed at both of them as well as the board.. The two cheated and should have faced harsh consequences..

If two bowlers who could still be on performance enhancing drugs for all we know open the bowling, the game for me loses all credibility, it might as well be fixed..

 

[silentstriker]

The two cheated and should have faced harsh consequences..

Agreed. Maybe I see this as less of an issue as you do, but the first three steps are the same (1. Drug tested positive, 2. Banned for 1 or 2 years). The third step is that a tribunal reverses those decisions, which did not happen previously. No one is saying that the third step should have occurred, and virtually everyone is in agreement that they should have stayed banned.

However, your anger should be at the tribunal, if anywhere. For all I know, every single Indian player is on steroids, as BCCI does not drug test its players, at least the PCB does. Does anyone know which other boards drug test their players?

 

[silentstriker]

In any case, maybe I'm taking an American view of this, but its just steroids, who cares? If they had taken HGH, no one would have been able to test them. I'd inject HGH by the ton if I thought it would help me become an international bowler, or if it would extend my career.

Initially, I was angry and had my best holier than thou attitude on against Asif and Akhtar. But then I thought to myself, "If Brian Westbrook was on HGH and helped us win a Super Bowl this season, what would I say?"

"Good man!", that's what.

EDIT: That does not mean they should be legal, or that they shouldn't be punished if found. Just that its pretty low on my 'care' things. NFL has a four game suspension for first timer (thats 1/4 of the regular season). Which IMO is fair.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

My anger is directed at both of them as well as the board.. The two cheated and should have faced harsh consequences..

If two bowlers who could still be on performance enhancing drugs for all we know open the bowling, the game for me loses all credibility, it might as well be fixed..

It's basically the same system with throwing. A bowler may be called at the start of a series for chucking, but he won't be called out of action for another couple of months (can't remember the exact time period, but it's typically at least a month). The bowler could conceivably chuck blatantly for the rest of the series and cash in on it.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

In any case, maybe I'm taking an American view of this, but its just steroids, who cares? If they had taken HGH, no one would have been able to test them. I'd inject HGH by the ton if I thought it would help me become an international bowler, or if it would extend my career.

Initially, I was angry and had my best holier than thou attitude on against Asif and Akhtar. But then I thought to myself, "If Brian Westbrook was on HGH and helped us win a Super Bowl this season, what would I say?"

"Good man!", that's what.

EDIT: That does not mean they should be legal, or that they shouldn't be punished if found. Just that its pretty low on my 'care' things. NFL has a four game suspension for first timer (thats 1/4 of the regular season). Which IMO is fair.

Disgusting attitude and disgusting post. No place for such stuff in professional sport.

 

[adharcric]

For all I know, every single Indian player is on steroids, as BCCI does not drug test its players, at least the PCB does.

Give me a break. Have you seen the Indian players?

 

[silentstriker]

Disgusting attitude and disgusting post. No place for such stuff in professional sport.

And I did say that they should be banned for a period if found out. Just on the whole scheme of things that are wrong with the game, its low on my 'care' list.

 

[Goughy]

Disgusting attitude and disgusting post. No place for such stuff in professional sport.

Agreed, but unfortunately common places in US sport. Athletes and fans included

 

[silentstriker]

Give me a break. Have you seen the Indian players?

Haha, very true.

 

[adharcric]

Did Asif and Akhtar take performance-enhancing steroids or just some random drug? I'm rather ignorant on this issue ...

 

[silentstriker]

Did Asif and Akhtar take performance-enhancing steroids or just some random drug? I'm rather ignorant on this issue ...

Performance enhancing. Nandrolone.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

And I did say that they should be banned for a period if found out.

But you're also stating that integrity is inconsequential if it means your team will win. What are your thoughts on matchfixing and ball tampering?

 

[silentstriker]

Does that help them recover quickly from injury or does it help them perform better? Specifically, how does it do that?

From WIKI:

The positive effects of the drug include muscle growth, appetite stimulation and increased red blood cell production and bone density. Clinical studies have shown it to be effective in treating anaemia, osteoporosis and some forms of neoplasia including breast cancer, and also acts as a progestin-based contraceptive. For these reasons, nandrolone received FDA approval in 1983, and while sale is now restricted by the Controlled Substances Act, it remains available by prescription in most countries. In addition to legal production, Nandrolone is also extensively produced and used by athletes and bodybuilders seeking an edge in professional competition.

 

[silentstriker]

But you're also stating that integrity is inconsequential if it means your team will win. What are your thoughts on matchfixing and ball tampering?

Well two different things. For steroids, there is no uniform policy across the cricketing bodies, and some nations (like India) do not drug test their players. I am assuming that at least some of them have taken steroids. That does not make it right, mind you, but I have no idea how many do it anyway.

As for ball tampering, it is about the same level as steroids. It's odd to me that a ball tamperer gets 5 runs to the opposition and a new ball, whereas a steroid user gets banned for a year or two.

As for match fixing, thats a whole another issue. There are different levels of cheating. Match fixing detracts from the fans, instead of doing your best (and sometimes cheating) in order to win, you are betraying the fans and (in this case) the country by losing. Very much different IMO.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

AFAIK international cricketing bodies fall under the World Anti-Doping Agency and therefore must cater to the same basic rules pertaining to drug use. ie, performance enhancing drugs are a no-no.

It's cheating. I don't see how you can condone cheating "as long as it isn't found out AND it helps my team win". Truly disgusting.

 

[silentstriker]

AFAIK international cricket bodies fall under the World Anti-Doping Agency and therefore must cater to the same basic rules pertaining to drug use. ie, performance enhancing drugs are a no-no.

But its irrelevant what laws they are governed by if many of them aren't tested in the first place.

It's cheating.

Yes, never said otherwise.

I don't see how you can condone cheating "as long as it isn't found out AND it helps my team win". Truly disgusting.

Now, wait a minute. Its not condoning it. I agreed that they should be banned. Shawn Merriman is one of my favorite players. He got caught, did his time, and now he's back in the playoffs. I have no problem with that. Ditto with Julius Peppers, Shane Warne (who got a lot more than the others in terms of punishment), etc.

I have no problem with regular drug testing and banishment of the offenders. Some drugs (HGH) are hard to detect (if not impossible) and at this point I pretty much take it as a given that a lot of people are using it.

But assuming that weren't the case, I'd still feel the same way: Test frequently and punish the offenders. I don't see how that argument is any different from yours. I just said that on a 'moral' level, I put it around the same level as ball tampering (ie, breaking the rules to give yourself the edge). Shouldn't be allowed. If one of my players gets found out for cheating, should he be punished? Yea. Will I really care or will it make me look at him differently? No.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But its irrelevant what laws they are governed by if many of them aren't tested in the first place.

Of course it's relevant. Whether or not players are tested, it's still wrong. Doesn't matter if you're not caught.

How is this not defending or justifying cheating?

In any case, maybe I'm taking an American view of this, but its just steroids, who cares? If they had taken HGH, no one would have been able to test them. I'd inject HGH by the ton if I thought it would help me become an international bowler, or if it would extend my career.

 

[silentstriker]

It would be interesting to note how many of us would jump at the chance to do an undetectable drug like HGH if it meant improving your game enough to get a national selection and earn millions vs. staying in mediocrity. We may huff and puff about it now, but I wonder how many of us would give in to that temptation.

Not saying its right or acceptable, but its not the end of the world, nor is it all that rare (IMO).

 

[silentstriker]

Of course it's relevant. Whether or not players are tested, it's still wrong. Doesn't matter if you're not caught.

How is this not defending or justifying cheating?

I wouldn't care if it meant us winning a championship. That does not mean that he shouldn't be banned. Its not justifying, its putting it on level with saying you caught the ball cleanly when you didn't.

In any case, maybe I'm taking an American view of this, but its just steroids, who cares? If they had taken HGH, no one would have been able to test them. I'd inject HGH by the ton if I thought it would help me become an international bowler, or if it would extend my career.

Thats explaining it, and giving an accurate account of what most people would go through if they are on the fringes of selection. That still doesn't mean it should be allowed.