Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: 6 Degrees of Separation. A point and a challenge

  1. #1
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    All Over
    Posts
    15,083

    6 Degrees of Separation. A point and a challenge

    There is a point to what I am doing as well as a challenge, so no apologies if someone has done similar before.

    Point A lot of people tell us how much better cricket has become and how the older guys dont stack up.

    Whilst the game has evolved and may have improved I have no belief that it is due to players getting better. Player just adapt.

    Take for example Tendulkar and Gooch. Tendulkar has been one of the all time greats. When he first met up with Gooch, it was when Gooch was at the top of his game towards his career. Gooch debuts in the mid 70s and was a little out of his depth. No doubt the game had changed in 15/16 years but the players had adapted and changed.

    Gooch played against Tendulkar and with Boycott. A gap from Boycotts debut to now of nearly 45 years. They all seem to fit together nicely, and played well in their eras and adapted to different ones. Gooch played with or against players whos combined careers lasted for a massive span of over 45 years and he competed against all. With Gooch as the barometer its clear that there were not massive differences between the players at the beginning compared to those at the end.

    My point, Cricketers now are not more talented just more adapted to the current version of an ever changing game. I have no doubt that older cricketers would have adapted in the same way.

    Challenge- Using the careers of 6 players who, in a chain, have played with or against each other I have managed to go from the present to 1927. I've only tried a few combinations so Im sure it can be beat. Can anyone beat it?

    2006-1928

    Tendulkar
    played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...31JUL1990.html
    Gooch
    played against http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...14JUL1975.html
    I. Chappell
    played against http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/aust...ayer/4560.html
    Hanif Mohammad
    played against http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...18OCT1952.html
    Amarnath
    played against http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...13FEB1934.html
    Jardine

    Who made his debut in http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/engl...tch/62559.html

    2006 to 1928 in the careers of 6 players who have played against each other.

    Heres another
    Ok a quick go again to see if I can beat it.

    Using Tendulkar and Gooch again. So

    2006-1927

    Tendulkar
    played against see above
    Gooch
    played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...29MAY1980.html
    Clive Lloyd
    played against http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...13JUL1976.html
    Brian Close
    played with http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...26JUL1949.html
    Len Hutton
    played with http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...29JUN1937.html
    Wally Hammond

    Who debuted in http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...27DEC1927.html

    2006 to 1927 in 6 players who have played with or against each other.
    Anyone do better?
    Last edited by Goughy; 30-07-2006 at 07:22 AM.
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there is bound to be edits

    West Robham Rabid Wolves Caedere lemma quod eat lemma

    Happy Birthday! (easier than using Birthday threads)

    Email and MSN- Goughy at cricketmail dot net

  2. #2
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Samuel_Vimes's Avatar
    Defend Your Castle Champion! Monkey Diving Champion!
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Bonn, BRD
    Posts
    22,865
    Bah. I can get to the 19th century.

    Tendulkar
    played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...20NOV1989.html
    Javed Miandad in November 1989
    played with http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...13OCT1976.html
    Mushtaq Mohammad in October 1976
    played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...04JUN1962.html
    Brian Statham in June 1962
    played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...21JAN1954.html
    George Headley in January 1954
    played against http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...16JAN1930.html
    Wilf Rhodes in January 1930,
    who debuted in June 1899
    http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/engl...tch/62455.html
    Messi scores on the rebound.

    Founder of ESAS - Edgar Schiferli, the best associate bowler
    A follower of the schools of Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett and Benaud
    Member of JMAS, DMAS, FRAS and RTDAS

    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Grünbaum
    Is the conduct approved by the gods right ("pious"), because of properties of its own, or merely because it pleases the gods to value or command it?

  3. #3
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    All Over
    Posts
    15,083
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel_Vimes
    Bah. I can get to the 19th century.
    Excellent, you reckon that can be beaten or is that it?

  4. #4
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Samuel_Vimes's Avatar
    Defend Your Castle Champion! Monkey Diving Champion!
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Bonn, BRD
    Posts
    22,865
    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy
    Excellent, you reckon that can be beaten or is that it?
    I think the Headley-Rhodes combination is pretty unique. Spans 50 years. Unless we include first-class matches as well (though there's no reason why we shouldn't, really?)


  5. #5
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    All Over
    Posts
    15,083

  6. #6
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    All Over
    Posts
    15,083
    There are some close shaves that if certain guys played an extra year or were selected for a certain tour then we could get WG Grace in the 6.

    I mean Headley retired the year Cowdrey made his debut (1954) and if they had played that would have made Headley only 4th on the list (Sachin, Imran, Cowdrey - Headley, Rhodes, Grace)

    It would be nice if there is a possible way to get back to grace.

  7. #7
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    All Over
    Posts
    15,083
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel_Vimes
    Bah. I can get to the 19th century.

    who debuted in June 1899
    Bah, Im down to 1890. Details to follow and without using Headley and Rhodes.

    Anyone beat that?

  8. #8
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Locked up inside my opium den, surrounded by some Chinamen
    Posts
    45,141
    Best I've done (before I said "this is silly" & gave up ) is a shameful 1924:

    Shane Warne played against Graham Gooch:
    http://www.cricinfo.com/link_to_data...07JUN1993.html

    Gooch played with John Edrich:
    http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/19...14JUL1975.html

    Edrich played with Brian Close:
    http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/19...10JUN1963.html

    Close played with Freddy Brown:
    http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/19...26JUL1949.html

    Freddy Brown played with Herbert Sutcliffe:
    http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/19...31JUL1931.html

    Who debuted v South Africa in 1924:
    http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/19...17JUN1924.html

    It's annoying Gooch didn't play v The Windies in 1976, 'cos he debuted the year before. That would link him directly to Close.
    Cricket Web's 2013/14 Premier League Tipping Champion

    - As featured in The Independent.

    "as much a news event as an actual footballer, a worthy stop-start centre forward, but an all-time hyper-galactico when it comes to doing funny things with cars and hats, a player whose signing proves once again that the Premier League is still undoubtedly the best in the world when it comes to doing things with cars and hats."
    - Barney Ronay on Mario Balotelli

  9. #9
    Hall of Fame Member superkingdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    DRS Box
    Posts
    18,975
    hmm, not quite 1890 but starting from a different player, and an interesting journey

    From Inzi
    Ian Botham
    Doug Walters
    Tom Graveney
    Dudley Nourse
    Herbert Sutcliffe (debut 1924)
    Dave Mohammed >>>> You

  10. #10
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    All Over
    Posts
    15,083
    Ill flesh this out in a second.
    This is my 1890 one, Im putting the bones here before someone gets there first

    Lara-Greenidge-Close-Brown-Woolley-Gregory who debuted in 1890

    EDIT- Details Below

    Lara played with Greenidge
    http://rsa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...11DEC1990.html

    Greeindge played against Close
    http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...13JUL1976.html

    Close played with Brown
    http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...27DEC1950.html

    Brown played with Woolley
    http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...28JUN1932.html

    Woolley played against Gregory
    http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1...11AUG1909.html

    Gregory debuted in 1890
    http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/aust...tch/62428.html

    1890, Im happy with myself but I bet there is an earlier one.
    Last edited by Goughy; 30-07-2006 at 12:19 PM.

  11. #11
    Hall of Fame Member superkingdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    DRS Box
    Posts
    18,975
    okay not quite the same, but from the first ever test match to the present day in 8


    Jack Blackman
    Syd Gregory
    Frank Wooley
    Bradman
    Neil Harvey
    Bob Simpson
    Dilip Vengsarkar
    Marvin Attapattu

  12. #12
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    All Over
    Posts
    15,083
    Quote Originally Posted by superkingdave
    okay not quite the same, but from the first ever test match to the present day in 8
    If you take my list from the previous post (post #10) and add Blackman before Gregory, Im there in 7.

  13. #13
    Cricketer Of The Year wpdavid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    8,901
    Is it OK to introduce a sort of related point that occasionally taxes me? Namely, where is the cut-off point before which we can safely say that standards were nowhere near what they would become?

    Obviously we're talking 19th century here. Having read that Warwick Armstrong rates the Aus side in which he first appeared (circa 1905) as the finest that he played in, it must follow that standards were well established by the turn of the 20th century.

    So when did things really take off? By the first test in 1877? Later on when tests became more common? Before that? Clearly in the early part of the 19th century it really was a haphazard affair and it seems implausible that standards were anything to write home about. By the end of it, the game wasn't so very different from the one we know & love.

    As a side issue, how good was WG Grace? We all know that test cricket came along too late for him to be at his best in it, so how to we rate his performances in what passed for the domestic game at the time?

    Just musing ....

  14. #14
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    India
    Posts
    4,978
    I personally know the grandson, an actor, of nawab of pataudi (sr) who played in the bodyline series. So i know bradman within two degrees. from there i can get to grace through just two more degrees choosing between rhodes and barnes! just trying to be cheeky!!!!

    or... hold on... i dont even need bradman. the nawab knew hobbs who knew grace.. so there u go. i am wih the grand old man of cricket within 4 degrees!!!
    Last edited by bagapath; 02-08-2006 at 06:56 AM.



Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. What's the point
    By steds in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 16-10-2006, 03:37 PM
  2. broncoman's daily trivia challenge!
    By Simon in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 287
    Last Post: 11-09-2005, 11:50 PM
  3. ICC Trophy Challenge!
    By JeffStar in forum ICC Champions Trophy 2004
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 12-10-2004, 05:45 AM
  4. ICC Trophy Challenge!
    By JeffStar in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-09-2004, 02:40 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •