****OFFICIAL**** Lara vs Tendulkar Debate Thread

[C_C]

It does matter, England were not at their peak then. What was Freddie weighing back then, 250lbs?

You've shifted ground to "adaptability", yet we're talking about facing the moving ball here. If you're going to do that i am not going to bother chasing you around

Err. Last Ashes series is not the first time Ponting played against England in England, was it ? And the last time Dravid went to England, it wasnt his first time either.
You'd find that Dravid has consistently outshined Ponting in England.
As per adaptability- i didnt shift the goalpost, i added another dimension to it.

[parttimer]

Err. Last Ashes series is not the first time Ponting played against England in England, was it ? And the last time Dravid went to England, it wasnt his first time either.
You'd find that Dravid has consistently outshined Ponting in England.
As per adaptability- i didnt shift the goalpost, i added another dimension to it.

Lets see how he goes against the 4 prong England attack of today. Odds are in him failing as he has consistently done so against quality attacks on seaming pitches as he has before in SA and Australia - 99 in Aus and SA, 2001 SA, plus against Pak when the two WW's were still going round

[C_C]

Lets see how he goes against the 4 prong England attack of today. Odds are in him failing as he has consistently done so against quality attacks on seaming pitches as he has before in SA and Australia - 99 in Aus and SA, 2001 SA, plus against Pak when the two WW's were still going round

You convininetly forgot that he was a superb success in South Africa in 1996 where he faced Donald,Pollock and Klusener, acquiting himself with distinction. And the RSA attack of 2001 was hardly in the bracket of Australia, Pakistan, West Indies or the Saffie attack he faced in 96- it only had Pollock in it(who had a monster series).

Not to mention, that he was superb in West Indies in 1996 against the collective might of Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop.

And last but not the least, Dravid has never played Wasim and Waqar on seaming pitches. But then again, to those two that didnt matter.

[Sanz]

Lets see how he goes against the 4 prong England attack of today. Odds are in him failing as he has consistently done so against quality attacks on seaming pitches as he has before in SA and Australia - 99 in Aus and SA, 2001 SA, plus against Pak when the two WW's were still going round

I think you should watch cricket more closely, in 1999 tour of Australia, it was Warne that gave him more trouble than any other seamer. And in SA Dravid averaged pretty well when Donald was @ his peak.

[parttimer]

You convininetly forgot that he was a superb success in South Africa in 1996 where he faced Donald,Pollock and Klusener, acquiting himself with distinction. And the RSA attack of 2001 was hardly in the bracket of Australia, Pakistan, West Indies or the Saffie attack he faced in 96- it only had Pollock in it(who had a monster series).

Not to mention, that he was superb in West Indies in 1996 against the collective might of Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop.

And last but not the least, Dravid has never played Wasim and Waqar on seaming pitches. But then again, to those two that didnt matter.

He did have a good match at the Wanderers in 96, but didn't do much in the other four innings in that series. Hardly the mark of consistency. BTW, match was drawn (probably bcos Dravid 150 came at a Gillespie-esque SR of 30)

1996 Series against WI - Out of 5 tests, 4 draws and 1 win. Must have been a nightmarish conditions for batsmen in that series

[Sanz]

1996 Series against WI - Out of 5 tests, 4 draws and 1 win. Must have been a nightmarish conditions for batsmen in that series

That's true man Deano scored double century @ Chennai in 1987, Must have meant **** for everyone because all the three tests ended up draw and KapilDev went wicketless in the entire series only time in his career.

Do you even watch cricket or all your opinion is formed from Howstat.au.

[C_C]

He did have a good match at the Wanderers in 96, but didn't do much in the other four innings in that series. Hardly the mark of consistency. BTW, match was drawn (probably bcos Dravid 150 came at a Gillespie-esque SR of 30)

1996 Series against WI - Out of 5 tests, 4 draws and 1 win. Must have been a nightmarish conditions for batsmen in that series

Actually, yes it was pretty nightmaring for batsmen in most of those tests in the 96 tour of West Indies.
Most of the matches were drawn because of rain - they went during the caribbean wet season i think and batting was pretty hard on some of the days.

And against South Africa- we are talking about battin in the mid 90s. You forget that pitches were significantly harder to bat on in those days and a 55 average in a series was considered an excellent result. Add to the mix that it was only his fourth series and barely a year into his debut, in a batting lineup revolving around Tendulkar alone, it was a pretty superb result for Dravid.

[Sanz]

He did have a good match at the Wanderers in 96, but didn't do much in the other four innings in that series. Hardly the mark of consistency. BTW, match was drawn (probably bcos Dravid 150 came at a Gillespie-esque SR of 30)

Wasn't he not out in one inning and then was asked to open in one inning and in one inning he was out to Paul Adams ? Let me guesws Paul Adams was the greatest Seamer to come out of Africa, isn't he ? Whether his 150 came @ SR of 30 or 10 doesn't really matter, what matters is that he saved the game for India.

Again in 2001 he was asked to open the innings in the first test and he failed. In the second test he did well and it was because of his performance that the test ended in draw.

[parttimer]

That's true man Deano scored double century @ Chennai in 1987, Must have meant **** for everyone because all the three tests ended up draw and KapilDev went wicketless in the entire series only time in his career.

Do you even watch cricket or all your opinion is formed from Howstat.au.

I think he's nowhere near as good as made out to be, and still has to prove he can handle strong attacks on wickets that seam. To say he's better than Ponting on such wickets is pure fantasy. There are too many wholes in his resume ie. consistent poor results overall V SA and Aus when things haven't been easy batting wise

[Dasa]

I think he's nowhere near as good as made out to be, and still has to prove he can handle strong attacks on wickets that seam. To say he's better than Ponting on such wickets is pure fantasy. There are too many wholes in his resume ie. consistent poor results overall V SA and Aus when things haven't been easy batting wise

...but if you're going to use that as a mark against Dravid, why not use the same against Ponting? Consistently been very very poor in India, hasn't been able to score much against England, or score a great deal in seaming conditions.

Anyway, I think it's your bias showing through here...Dravid has obviously been absolutely brilliant on seamers if you've actually watched him play. But then again, you'd probably think Hodge is a better batsman than Dravid....

[Sanz]

I think he's nowhere near as good as made out to be, and still has to prove he can handle strong attacks on wickets that seam. To say he's better than Ponting on such wickets is pure fantasy. There are too many wholes in his resume ie. consistent poor results overall V SA and Aus when things haven't been easy batting wise

Oh so now you have switched from England to Australia and SA. So now no comparing Ponting/Dravid records in England ?

Who are you kidding Ricky averaged <40 against WI when Ambrose and Walsh played.

He flopped for the most part in the only series he played against Wasim/Waqar/Akhtar.

He flopped against the English attack of last summer.

[parttimer]

To say he flopped last summer is a bit OTT. An average of 40 for an Aus batsmen was pretty decent in that series, if you compare that to the rest of our lineup - Hayden, Martyn, Gilly who were in the 20's.

Punter averages 65 in SA, Dravid 42. Not sure where your going with that one!

Re WI: He didn't fare too badly against them, but an avg around 40, playing in conditions tailored to their attack is not too bad, esp in one of your first series. After those innitial blunders there was no stopping him..
Re Pak He had a couple of bad tests against them in Aus, other than that he made he's made hundreds galore against them. There isn't any pattern of weakness against the moving ball like there is with Dravid

[C_C]

I think he's nowhere near as good as made out to be, and still has to prove he can handle strong attacks on wickets that seam. To say he's better than Ponting on such wickets is pure fantasy. There are too many wholes in his resume ie. consistent poor results overall V SA and Aus when things haven't been easy batting wise

Performance against Australia ?
Well pray tell- how much has Ponting faced McGrath or Warne ?

On wickets that have movement in them, i'd pick Dravid over Ponting...on wickets that are usually hard and bouncy, i'd pick Ponting....on wickets that take spin, its Dravid rather handily.

[parttimer]

...but if you're going to use that as a mark against Dravid, why not use the same against Ponting? Consistently been very very poor in India, hasn't been able to score much against England, or score a great deal in seaming conditions.

Anyway, I think it's your bias showing through here...Dravid has obviously been absolutely brilliant on seamers if you've actually watched him play. But then again, you'd probably think Hodge is a better batsman than Dravid....

Ponting has been very poor in India, yes. But the arguement is who's better againt pace and movement.

[C_C]

To say he flopped last summer is a bit OTT. An average of 40 for an Aus batsmen was pretty decent in that series, if you compare that to the rest of our lineup - Hayden, Martyn, Gilly who were in the 20's.

Punter averages 65 in SA, Dravid 42. Not sure where your going with that one!

Re WI: He didn't fare too badly against them, but an avg around 40, playing in conditions tailored to their attack is not too bad, esp in one of your first series. After those innitial blunders there was no stopping him..
Re Pak He had a couple of bad tests against them in Aus, other than that he made he's made hundreds galore against them. There isn't any pattern of weakness against the moving ball like there is with Dravid

In my opinion, Ponting is the only 'great' batsman in the current Aussie lineup. he's behind Lara/Tendulkar/Richards/Chappell/Sobers/Gavaskar/Border/Miandad etc. for me but he's nonetheless, in the great category.Batsmen like Martyn, Gillchrist, Hayden are all 'good' batsmen who've cashed in against some of the weakest bowling lineups ever and caught the tail-end of the great bowling era.

I would rate them in the Richardson-Doug Walters-Ian Chappell category.