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Some biased thoughts on the World XI

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
nehrafan said:
THis debate seems to be like "every player is better than Afridi".

To a certain extend its true and i do find Afridi's selection in world 11 as a joke.I would really have liked to see Razzak in the team in place of Afridi.Razzak is an intelligent hitter and very destructive in ODI, he can also be uselfull with the ball.
whats wrong with u people how can afridi's selection in the World XI be a joke??, have you people conveniently forgotten his performaces in ODI this year especially his almost player of series performaces in the VB which is why he was selected in the sqaud in the 1st place ahead of someone like Razzaq or Cairns whose record vs Australia isn't that fantastic
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Prince EWS said:
Youre kidding, right?
well i should of said of late, because the Cairns that played last novemeber in the Chappel/hadlee trophy or in NZ earlier this year was a shadow of the Cairns of VB series 2002, but still Cairns ODI record vs Australia isn't great from what i've seen.
 
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thierry henry

International Coach
aussie said:
whats wrong with u people how can afridi's selection in the World XI be a joke??, have you people conveniently forgotten his performaces in ODI this year especially his almost player of series performaces in the VB which is why he was selected in the sqaud in the 1st place ahead of someone like Razzaq or Cairns whose record vs Australia isn't that fantastic
I remember his 9 years of consistent mediocrity, mostly.
 

greg

International Debutant
For NZ in ODIs see England in tests. The allround excellence gives less opportunity for individuals to shine and so the perception arises that they have no "big names" and all their success is down to team work.
 

Blaze

Banned
greg said:
For NZ in ODIs see England in tests. The allround excellence gives less opportunity for individuals to shine and so the perception arises that they have no "big names" and all their success is down to team work.

Very nice comparison.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
greg said:
For NZ in ODIs see England in tests. The allround excellence gives less opportunity for individuals to shine and so the perception arises that they have no "big names" and all their success is down to team work.
Hmmm.

I am not sure they are individually less likely to shine if the team is very good as a unit. Its a bit other way around.

When there are many individuals of great gift/talents/skills, it can lead to a lower than expected performance as a team unless there is high quality leadership which is really tough for a team of individual "greats"

So teams that are not full of prima donnas tend to provide a good platform for the good leader of men (which is still a pre-requisite). Most great captains have led less than great teams a) because they have been easier to manage and b) because there has been so much to do for the captain.

On top of it, led by a top class leader, the less-than-top drawer players tend to put in much more effort and the collective team , as opposed to the individual, takes over as far as who-am-I-performing-for is concerned.

The prima donnas of the sub-continent have so often played for themselves. Its amazing how much one hears the term, pressure to perform to stay in the team OR pressures of selection affecting players performance, in this part of the world.

Teams like NZL, because they do not posess the Tendulkars, Dravids, Inzemaams, Waqars, Wasims etc AND , most importantly, because they are led by such good leaders (I avoid the term captain for obvious reasons) tend to play for the side, play above themselves , so to speak, and produce results that the individual skill sets do not seem to suggest.

This is not the same as saying that if they were not doing so well as a team they would somehow perform better (shine) as individuals.
 

Craig

World Traveller
In saying that wasn't Brendon McCullum was picked in the squad for ODIs or Tests (and didn't make the cut obviously) and that raised an eyebrow at his pick.
 

greg

International Debutant
SJS said:
Hmmm.

I am not sure they are individually less likely to shine if the team is very good as a unit. Its a bit other way around.

When there are many individuals of great gift/talents/skills, it can lead to a lower than expected performance as a team unless there is high quality leadership which is really tough for a team of individual "greats"

So teams that are not full of prima donnas tend to provide a good platform for the good leader of men (which is still a pre-requisite). Most great captains have led less than great teams a) because they have been easier to manage and b) because there has been so much to do for the captain.

On top of it, led by a top class leader, the less-than-top drawer players tend to put in much more effort and the collective team , as opposed to the individual, takes over as far as who-am-I-performing-for is concerned.

The prima donnas of the sub-continent have so often played for themselves. Its amazing how much one hears the term, pressure to perform to stay in the team OR pressures of selection affecting players performance, in this part of the world.

Teams like NZL, because they do not posess the Tendulkars, Dravids, Inzemaams, Waqars, Wasims etc AND , most importantly, because they are led by such good leaders (I avoid the term captain for obvious reasons) tend to play for the side, play above themselves , so to speak, and produce results that the individual skill sets do not seem to suggest.

This is not the same as saying that if they were not doing so well as a team they would somehow perform better (shine) as individuals.
I think you are slightly missing my point. I'm am not saying that people will perform 'better' in poorer teams. I am using "shine" as a relative term, and in relation to their fellow team-mates. If someone in the England team had averaged 50 during the nineties, as Strauss has, then he would have been a lot closer to getting into a World XI. He would have got a lot of attention because he would likely have been the only player scoring any of our runs. When everyone is contributing it is much harder to get the recognition or the credit he deserves.

This is arguably even more true of bowlers. Courteney Walsh got far more acknowlegement for his bowling once the stocks had dwindled and he was virtually the only Windian capable of taking wickets.
 

Zinzan

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I personally think Fleming should have been in the side for his one day captaincy first and foremost. I hardly think he would be a weakness in the batting line-up given his oneday record in the last 3-4 years where he averages around 40 at a strike rate well over 80.

I mean as good a cricketer as Pollock is, since when has he been a good captain?? Sometimes picking on form is better than just judging a player on there career record which the world xi selectors seemed to have done. I mean look at Vettori.....he had probably the least impressive career record of those bowlers last night, but was by far and away the best bowler. Many of the world xi players picked on their career record (and not form) looked decidely rusty last night....thus the massive defeat
 

Eclipse

International Debutant
zinzan12 said:
I personally think Fleming should have been in the side for his one day captaincy first and foremost. I hardly think he would be a weakness in the batting line-up given his oneday record in the last 3-4 years where he averages around 40 at a strike rate well over 80.

I mean as good a cricketer as Pollock is, since when has he been a good captain?? Sometimes picking on form is better than just judging a player on there career record which the world xi selectors seemed to have done. I mean look at Vettori.....he had probably the least impressive career record of those bowlers last night, but was by far and away the best bowler. Many of the world xi players picked on their career record (and not form) looked decidely rusty last night....thus the massive defeat

Pitty Flemming has such a crap record as a batsman against Australia though and that counts..
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
aussie said:
well i should of said of late, because the Cairns that played last novemeber in the Chappel/hadlee trophy or in NZ earlier this year was a shadow of the Cairns of VB series 2002, but still Cairns ODI record vs Australia isn't great from what i've seen.
That whole VB series, Afridi threatened without ever taking the series by the scruff of the neck - which is what he would have had to have done for his selection to be on the back of his performances vs Aus. He may have made only one 50 vs Aus, and just got his customary 20 or so off 9 balls. His bowling has improved a fair bit IMO, but I think there are plenty of better candidates that could have gotten a game ahead of him.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I don't know about Afridi, but certainly, now that Astle's stats were brought up, I think Astle shoudl have been there ahead of Sehwag. Heck, even Tresco could have been there ahead of Sehwag. Sehwag was just a downright commercial interests driven selection, the worst of the ODI team, IMO.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
thierry henry said:
Word that. Razzaq has all of Afridi's hitting potential but is a better bat. Plus at least his equal with the ball.
I agree with most of that, but Razzaq is not as good as Afridi with the ball, Razzaq has been horrid with the ball as of late in ODIs. He's not as good a fielder as well.

I think the gamble on Afridi for a super-sub was not such a bad idea as people have suggested, but he doesn't warrant a place in the first XI alone for sure.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
thierry henry said:
Why the controversy. Sehwag averages 32, coming from India. Astle has been playing twice as long and averages 35 coming from NZ pitches, and imo is a better bowler. Sehwag is out of form atm.

Perhaps there would have been controversy for ridiculous reasons, that's what I'm trying to point out here.

NZ don't get a fair go in world cricket because we are poor self-publicists. I think we are due a few threads of one-eyed ranting.
Sehwag is never better than Astle as an ODI player. He is highly overrated and I would select Astle in my team any day. Astle is a better batsman, better fielder, and better bowler than him.

Heck I would even pick Afridi ahead of Sehwag. Afridi bowls better, fields better and when he bats, he is 1000 times better than Sehwag.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
thierry henry said:
I remember his 9 years of consistent mediocrity, mostly.
thats irrelevant because its his consistent & improved performances in ODI this year that got him selected..
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Cairns is struggling to make the NZ team let alone any World team at the moment. He got carted for 70 runs off 7 overs recently against Zimbabwe & his batting has been poor.
 

Blaze

Banned
Eclipse said:
Pitty Flemming has such a crap record as a batsman against Australia though and that counts..

He had a horrid time against McGrath this year but hasn't he also scored centuries against AUS in the past?
 

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