Averaging 50 with the ball gets you in the World XI?

[Craig]

What planet are you from?

For starters, strike rates mean very little in test cricket.

Fifity-eight is quite a good strike rate, anyway! Especially for an opener...

For a guy who doesn't post that often I've always liked your posts.

 

[Craig]

b) Almost all of the pace bowlers NZ have used for some sort of extended period in recent years have better averages and strike rates than Vettori. If you disagree with this point, then find some stats to prove it. I believe Cairns has averaged about 29, Tuffey in the low 30s, Franklin high 20s, Shayne O'Connor low 30s, Martin has a similar average to Vettori (but without all the wickets against Bangladesh), and so on. In a vast majority of circumstances (i.e. games against anyone other than Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, and to a lesser extent Australia) Vettori is the proven weak link in the NZ attack.

And how many left arm spinners have good averages?

 

[Craig]

...yes, and it was against Zimbabwe. He's been playing international cricket for nearly 9 years now, some performances against other teams would be nice.

How about 31 wickets @22.16 against Sri Lanka and 16 wickets at @29.50 then if you are so concerned about player stats.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/guru?sdb=...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

(West Indies)

http://stats.cricinfo.com/guru?sdb=...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

(Sri Lanka)

And given that he has played 7 and 4 Tests respectively it isn't so bad. But I expect you discredit them as rubbish in 5..4..3

 

[JASON]

Kumble:

76 wickets in the past 12 months.

51 wickets in his last 7 tests vs Australia.
Includes 24 in Australia.

Career record of 88 wickets in 14 tests vs Australia ( compare with Murali: 51 in 10 tests ).
Gavaskar and his selection comittee can kiss my a$$ .

I think your selective analysis of Murali stats forgets a very important fact - In his initial few years his performances were average - And the only Tests he played in Australia were during this time -

Here's his performance against the Aussies Match by Match-
Match 1 - 1992 - Colombo - 1/32 and 2/109
Match 2 - 1992 - Moratuwa - 1/58 and 0/26
Match 3 - 1995/6 Perth - 2/224
Match 4 - 1995/6 Melbourne - 1/124

Then he turned an absolutely awesome Purple Patch in his International performances -

Match 5 - Kandy - 4/63 and 3/65
Match 6 - Galle - 5/71
Match 7 - Colombo 3/150
Match 8 - Galle - 6/59 and 5/153
Match 9 - Kandy 4/48 and 5/173
Match 10 - Colombo 5/123 and 3/93

If I used selective analysis - then last 6 games V Australia - 6 Matches 43 wickets at 23.20 with 5 x 5 wicket hauls !!
The fact that he has not played more Tests v Australia since 1996 is due to 1. Australia playing SL in tests rather infrequently and 2. His reluctance to go there for the recent series in Darwin and Cairns due to various reasons which we are all aware of !!

 

[Craig]

That is a pretty good point and I agree with Prince EWS about people using selective stats.

 

[Deja moo]

I think your selective analysis of Murali stats forgets a very important fact - In his initial few years his performances were average - And the only Tests he played in Australia were during this time -

Here's his performance against the Aussies Match by Match-
Match 1 - 1992 - Colombo - 1/32 and 2/109
Match 2 - 1992 - Moratuwa - 1/58 and 0/26
Match 3 - 1995/6 Perth - 2/224
Match 4 - 1995/6 Melbourne - 1/124

Then he turned an absolutely awesome Purple Patch in his International performances -

Match 5 - Kandy - 4/63 and 3/65
Match 6 - Galle - 5/71
Match 7 - Colombo 3/150
Match 8 - Galle - 6/59 and 5/153
Match 9 - Kandy 4/48 and 5/173
Match 10 - Colombo 5/123 and 3/93

If I used selective analysis - then last 6 games V Australia - 6 Matches 43 wickets at 23.20 with 5 x 5 wicket hauls !!
The fact that he has not played more Tests v Australia since 1996 is due to 1. Australia playing SL in tests rather infrequently and 2. His reluctance to go there for the recent series in Darwin and Cairns due to various reasons which we are all aware of !!

Eh ?

You're the one using selective stats.

Kumbles last 7 tests vs Australia have yielded 51 wickets.

Muralis last 6 tests vs Australia have yielded 43 wickets.

Theyre equal on 7 per test, but Kumbles played 3 of those 7 in Australia, whereas Muralis played all 6 in Sri Lanka.

Plus Kumble hasnt needed the learning curve vs Australia as Murali has in the early part of their careers.

Combine the two factors, and its easily apparent that Kumble has been the better performer of the two vs Australia. It isnt rocket science.

 

[JASON]

Eh ?

You're the one using selective stats.

Kumbles last 7 tests vs Australia have yielded 51 wickets.

Muralis last 6 tests vs Australia have yielded 43 wickets.

Theyre equal on 7 per test, but Kumbles played 3 of those 7 in Australia, whereas Muralis played all 6 in Sri Lanka.

Plus Kumble hasnt needed the learning curve vs Australia as Murali has in the early part of their careers.

Combine the two factors, and its easily apparent that Kumble has been the better performer of the two vs Australia. It isnt rocket science.

This World XI is not chosen purely on performances against Australia !!

But more to do with selecting cricketers with outstanding performances against most countries !! (Not including Zim/Bangla in this)

Talking about learning curves is nonsensical since we are talking of two different type of spinners and two different skills !!

But since you brought up this thing about Learning Curves I just did this selective analysis just to highlight how futile that argument is -

As you keep harping about Anil Kumble's last 7 Tests v Australia yielding 51 wickets , I did some detailed analysis .

His first 7 tests therefore yielded 37 wickets.

Analysis of his first 7 tests would show , he only played 3 of these in Australia and here are his bowling performances in these 3 tests -

Adelaide 1999/2000 - 2/101 and 1/ 73
Melbourne 1999/2000 - 0/78 and 2/72
Sydney 1999/2000 - 0/ 126

Does Look like Our friend Anil also took his time learning on non spinner friendly wickets down under , Eh ?

(Now Most people who know the SCG would say any spinner worth his salt should be capable of taking wickets at the SCG and even Adelaide which does take spin by day 4/5) This compared to Murali's 2 tests in Australia in the early part of his career being in non spinner friendly pitches of Perth and Melbourne (the MCG pitch then cf the current pitch which is different )


I guess Kumble didn't have trouble on the spin friendly turners in India when he played the Aussies first in 1996/7 but considering he had already played Test Cricket for 6-7 years by then (having made his Test debut as way back as 1990) I would have hoped (and he has shown by his performance) that he would have finished all his learning by then !!!

But despite this he still had to learn it all over when he first played down under in 1999/2000 9-10 years after his debut !!

Talk about slow learners , eh what ?

Murali on the other hand made his Test Debut against Australia - and thus his first two tests at home against Australi were his first 2 tests in Test cricket !! The next 2 you keep highlighting us over and over again were played in 1995/6 3 years after his debut !!

Seems to me that Murali certainly was no slouch in terms of learning when you compare him to our friend Anil , and the number of years they had been in the Test arena !!

Not Rocket Science, Eh what ?

 

[thierry henry]

You can't deny that we are a weak bowling side in tests. Martin, Mills, Franklin and Tuffey for Vettori to bowl with...the return of Bond has helped though.

Martin, Franklin, Tuffey- overall, all are generally as effective as Vettori or moreso.

I agree that left-arm spinners are not usually profilic wicket-takers. Infact, I couldn't agree more. How does this add to your argument?

 

[thierry henry]

How about 31 wickets @22.16 against Sri Lanka and 16 wickets at @29.50 then if you are so concerned about player stats.

http://stats.cricinfo.com/guru?sdb=...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

(West Indies)

http://stats.cricinfo.com/guru?sdb=...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

(Sri Lanka)

And given that he has played 7 and 4 Tests respectively it isn't so bad. But I expect you discredit them as rubbish in 5..4..3

Well, you expect wrong. Those are perfectly credible stats. Obviously Vettori has a good record against a couple of other sides (presumably he has a very poor record against a couple of others then.) I admit I got that wrong.

It still doesn't take away from my general point, which is

a) since his major injury in 2000, Vettori has generally been a very poor performer against genuine test opposition. His overall average of just under 50, over a period of 27 tests, is fairly solid proof of this

and

b) No bowler with a record that poor can blame it on his teammates. Vettori's record is no better than any of his teammates- if anything it is worse. Hence the argument that he suffers from having to "carry the team" makes no sense.

 

[Deja moo]

This World XI is not chosen purely on performances against Australia !!

But more to do with selecting cricketers with outstanding performances against most countries !! (Not including Zim/Bangla in this)

Talking about learning curves is nonsensical since we are talking of two different type of spinners and two different skills !!

But since you brought up this thing about Learning Curves I just did this selective analysis just to highlight how futile that argument is -

As you keep harping about Anil Kumble's last 7 Tests v Australia yielding 51 wickets , I did some detailed analysis .

His first 7 tests therefore yielded 37 wickets.

Analysis of his first 7 tests would show , he only played 3 of these in Australia and here are his bowling performances in these 3 tests -

Adelaide 1999/2000 - 2/101 and 1/ 73
Melbourne 1999/2000 - 0/78 and 2/72
Sydney 1999/2000 - 0/ 126

Does Look like Our friend Anil also took his time learning on non spinner friendly wickets down under , Eh ?

(Now Most people who know the SCG would say any spinner worth his salt should be capable of taking wickets at the SCG and even Adelaide which does take spin by day 4/5) This compared to Murali's 2 tests in Australia in the early part of his career being in non spinner friendly pitches of Perth and Melbourne (the MCG pitch then cf the current pitch which is different )


I guess Kumble didn't have trouble on the spin friendly turners in India when he played the Aussies first in 1996/7 but considering he had already played Test Cricket for 6-7 years by then (having made his Test debut as way back as 1990) I would have hoped (and he has shown by his performance) that he would have finished all his learning by then !!!

But despite this he still had to learn it all over when he first played down under in 1999/2000 9-10 years after his debut !!

Talk about slow learners , eh what ?

Murali on the other hand made his Test Debut against Australia - and thus his first two tests at home against Australi were his first 2 tests in Test cricket !! The next 2 you keep highlighting us over and over again were played in 1995/6 3 years after his debut !!

Seems to me that Murali certainly was no slouch in terms of learning when you compare him to our friend Anil , and the number of years they had been in the Test arena !!

Not Rocket Science, Eh what ?

Lets compare Muarlis learning curve with Kumbles, shall we ?

Muralis first 4 tests vs Australia : 7-673 for Murali at an average of 96 per wicket. And forget not, half of these matches were played on Sri Lankan turners.

Kumbles first 3 tests vs Australia in Australia ( since you want to discount his performances at home. I'll indulge you ) : 5-430 for Kumble at an average of 86 per wicket.

So it seems neither were hot shots early on in their careers against Australia ( remember, I'm discounting Kumbles performances at home ), but still Kumble manages to pip Murali despite Murali having played half those tests at home. Not to mention the fact that Kumble faced a vastly superior Aussie side in those matches in their own backyard, in a series played just after they had won the '99 World cup.

And I neednt even compare Kumbles initial home record with Muralis, or even their subsequent performances vs the Aussies, coz frankly, its there for all to see. It pays to get the proper perspective, doesnt it Jason ? As I said, its not rocket science once you look past national biases and reputations.

And oh, gaudy fonts do not make your points any more valid than they might be.

 

[JASON]

Lets compare Muarlis learning curve with Kumbles, shall we ?

Muralis first 4 tests vs Australia : 7-673 for Murali at an average of 96 per wicket. And forget not, half of these matches were played on Sri Lankan turners.

Kumbles first 3 tests vs Australia in Australia ( since you want to discount his performances at home. I'll indulge you ) : 5-430 for Kumble at an average of 86 per wicket.

So it seems neither were hot shots early on in their careers against Australia ( remember, I'm discounting Kumbles performances at home ), but still Kumble manages to pip Murali despite Murali having played half those tests at home. Not to mention the fact that Kumble faced a vastly superior Aussie side in those matches in their own backyard, in a series played just after they had won the '99 World cup.

And I neednt even compare Kumbles initial home record with Muralis, or even their subsequent performances vs the Aussies, coz frankly, its there for all to see. It pays to get the proper perspective, doesnt it Jason ? As I said, its not rocket science once you look past national biases and reputations.

And oh, gaudy fonts do not make your points any more valid than they might be.

You seem to have totally missed the point stated. Murali played his initial 4 Tests against Australia very early in his career (Debut and 3 yars post debut) compared to Kumble who played his Tests 6-7 years into his career (at home) and 9-10 years later away - If by comparing these you find Kumble pips Murali based on those crap bowling figures (in their early tests) you need a urgent course study on analysing data usefully rather than nonsensically !!

The other point that I highlighted which again you seem to have missed is WRT the venues where Murali amd Kumble played their tests in Australia. Murali played his 2 tests at the WACA in Perth and the previous seamy MCG pitch.(not the current one), Kumble played his on SCG (very spinner friendly), Adelaide and (the current pitch at) MCG which would be considered neutral but taking spin by Day 4/5 !! I rest my case on analysing these data there !!

And oh, gaudy fonts do not make your points any more valid than they might be.

They don't make your points any more valid, just as making points in bold don't either !! (as you have)
But they can some times make points more easier to grasp for some who fail to grasp the essence of the discussion otherwise !!

* obviously it has not done so in this instance *

 

[Deja moo]

You seem to have totally missed the point stated. Murali played his initial 4 Tests against very early in his career compared to Kumble who played his Tests 6-7 years into his career (at home) and 9-10 years later away - If by comparing these you find Kumble pips Murali based on those crap bowling figures you need a urgent course study on analysing data usefully rather than nonsensically !!

And Murali played half of those 4 at home, for a team that was to win the World Cup in just a years time, while Kumble played all 3 in Australia, for arguabely the worst team ever to leave Indian shores for a long time. To top it off, Kumble faced a much much better Australian side than Murali did. This was a side that had just won the World Cup, and remember, those 3 tests were part of the strongest bull run ever witnessed in the history of test cricket - the famed 16 in a row. Knowing these facts, if you still continue at your attempts at obfuscation, it is you who needs the course you speak of.

They don't make your points any more valid, just as making points in bold don't either !! (as you have)
But they can some times make points more easier to grasp for some who fail to grasp the essence of the discussion otherwise !!

* obviously it has not done so in these instance *

Nope. They are simply what they are - attempts at attention grabbing. And its not the first time either by any stretch. Care to conduct a poll among the regular posters ?

 

[JASON]

And Murali played half of those 4 at home, for a team that was to win the World Cup in just a years time, while Kumble played all 3 in Australia, for arguabely the worst team ever to leave Indian shores for a long time. To top it off, Kumble faced a much much better Australian side than Murali did. This was a side that had just won the World Cup, and remember, those 3 tests were part of the strongest bull run ever witnessed in the history of test cricket - the famed 16 in a row. Knowing these facts, if you still continue at your attempts at obfuscation, it is you who needs the course you speak of.





Nope. They are simply what they are - attempts at attention grabbing. And its not the first time either by any stretch. Care to conduct a poll among the regular posters ?

I think your attempt to make Kumble look better based on the quality of Australian batting depth of the two respective oppositions the two plyers played against is feeble and seems to you are clutching straws in a vain attempt to save your futile point !!

But since you raised the issue about the quality of players - here are the list of players who were part of the respective teams when they played against Australia.

Australian Players in Test Played by Murali 1996 : MJ Slater, MA Taylor, DC Boon, ME Waugh, RT Ponting,SR Waugh, SG Law, IA Healy, BP Julian, SK Warne, CJ McDermott, GD McGrath.

Australia Players in Tests played by Kumble 99/2000: GS Blewett, MJ Slater, JL Langer, ME Waugh, SR Waugh, RT Ponting, AC Gilchrist, SK Warne, MS Kasprowicz, DW Fleming, GD McGrath,B Lee

Now if you tell me Greg Blewett ,Justin Langer and Adam Gilchrist are better than Mark Taylor, David Boon and Ian Healy - I think only 1 out of the 3 would be considered by most well knowledgeable on Australian Cricket !! ( that would be Gilchrist)

Anyway, I feel going into this discussion and analysing such trivial things as the strength of the opposition in such a manner only highlights how trivial your point is with regard to the 2 bowlers early performances . So I think , you will need to come up with some thing much more substantial next time to substantiate your point !! (only if there is anything left for you to bring up !! )

How about the weather on the day they played those tests or the colour of the Umpires ties perhaps !!

 

[JASON]

Nope. They are simply what they are - attempts at attention grabbing. And its not the first time either by any stretch. Care to conduct a poll among the regular posters ?

That is their intention !! * as stated several times previously * (obviously not working again)
They are of course not the first time - Go and see the Cricket Trvia quiz threads !!

Why do you need a poll such trivial things ?
Do you not have anything useful to do ?

 

[Dasa]

Anyway, I feel going into this discussion and analysing such trivial things as the strength of the opposition in such a manner only highlights how trivial your point is with regard to the 2 bowlers early performances .

OK, if their early performances are a trivial matter, how about their most recent performances against AUS?? Kumble still comes out on top.

 

[Deja moo]

I think your attempt to make Kumble look better based on the quality of Australian batting depth of the two respective oppositions the two plyers played against is feeble and seems to you are clutching straws in a vain attempt to save your futile point !!

But since you raised the issue about the quality of players - here are the list of players who were part of the respective teams when they played against Australia.

Australian Players in Test Played by Murali 1996 : MJ Slater, MA Taylor, DC Boon, ME Waugh, RT Ponting,SR Waugh, SG Law, IA Healy, BP Julian, SK Warne, CJ McDermott, GD McGrath.

Australia Players in Tests played by Kumble 99/2000: GS Blewett, MJ Slater, JL Langer, ME Waugh, SR Waugh, RT Ponting, AC Gilchrist, SK Warne, MS Kasprowicz, DW Fleming, GD McGrath,B Lee

Now if you tell me Greg Blewett ,Justin Langer and Adam Gilchrist are better than Mark Taylor, David Boon and Ian Healy - I think only 1 out of the 3 would be considered by most well knowledgeable on Australian Cricket !! ( that would be Gilchrist)

Anyway, I feel going into this discussion and analysing such trivial things as the strength of the opposition in such a manner only highlights how trivial your point is with regard to the 2 bowlers early performances . So I think , you will need to come up with some thing much more substantial next time to substantiate your point !! (only if there is anything left for you to bring up !! )

How about the weather on the day they played those tests or the colour of the Umpires ties perhaps !!

Gee Jason,

Filter:                       M     R    HS    Ave   50s  100s   W       BB     Ave     5W  Ct  St
Kumble vs Australia: 14   283   39   17.68   0       0      88     8/141   27.17    9    6    0
Murali vs Australia  : 10    76    43   10.85   0       0      50     6/59     31.42    5    9    0

Filter:                       M     R    HS    Ave   50s  100s   W       BB     Ave     5W  Ct  St
Kumble in Australia:  6   117    28*  16.71   0       0      29     8/141   40.00     3   1    0
Murali in Australia  :  2    14     11    7.00    0       0       3      2/224   116.00   0   3    0

Filter:                            M     R    HS    Ave   50s  100s   W       BB     Ave     5W  Ct  St
Kumble at home vs Aus: 8    166    39   18.44   0      0      59      7/48   20.86     6    5    0
Murali at home vs Aus  : 8     62     43   12.40   0      0      47      6/59   26.02     5    6    0

Ouch !! Its gotta hurt been proven wrong on all counts. Are you feeling okay, Jason ? Or do you want to check out the colour of the coats of the umpires, like you suggested ?

 

[Deja moo]

OK, if their early performances are a trivial matter, how about their most recent performances against AUS?? Kumble still comes out on top.

Shhh....keep the pins away from the bubble.

 

[JASON]

OK, if their early performances are a trivial matter, how about their most recent performances against AUS?? Kumble still comes out on top.

How come - 51 wickets in 7 tests v 43 wickets in 6

The difference is pretty marginal . But overall Murali's stats against all opposition is better -
Murali Career summary -

(6 ball overs) Mat O R W BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10

overall 93 5262.5 12340 549 9/51 16/220 22.47 2.34 57.5 46 14

v Australia 10 515.3 1571 50 6/59 11/212 31.42 3.04 61.8 5 1
v Bangladesh 2 89.5 209 20 5/13 10/98 10.45 2.32 26.9 4 2
v England 10 768.3 1431 69 9/65 16/220 20.73 1.86 66.8 4 2
v India 12 637 1680 51 8/87 11/196 32.94 2.63 74.9 3 1
v New Zealand 10 536 1232 52 5/30 9/227 23.69 2.29 61.8 4 0
v Pakistan 12 623.5 1622 68 6/71 10/148 23.85 2.60 55.0 4 1
v South Africa 13 821.4 1914 82 7/84 13/171 23.34 2.32 60.1 8 2
v West Indies 10 483.4 1214 70 8/46 11/170 17.34 2.50 41.4 8 3
v Zimbabwe 14 786.5 1467 87 9/51 13/115 16.86 1.86 54.2 6 2

in Australia 2 92 348 3 2/224 2/224 116.00 3.78 184.0 0 0
in England 3 239.5 517 24 9/65 16/220 21.54 2.15 59.9 3 1
in India 5 264.2 731 15 5/162 5/162 48.73 2.76 105.7 1 0
in New Zealand 4 167 382 13 5/64 6/105 29.38 2.28 77.0 1 0
in Pakistan 7 409.5 1053 49 6/71 10/148 21.48 2.56 50.1 2 1
in South Africa 6 353.1 911 35 6/39 11/161 26.02 2.57 60.5 3 1
in Sri Lanka 55 3225.3 7226 359 9/51 13/115 20.12 2.24 53.9 32 11
in West Indies 4 174.4 456 25 5/34 8/106 18.24 2.61 41.9 3 0
in Zimbabwe 7 336.3 716 26 6/45 8/82 27.53 2.12 77.6 1 0

Kumble overall Career Summary -

(6 ball overs) Mat O R W BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10

overall 95 5054 13015 461 10/74 14/149 28.23 2.57 65.7 29 7

v Australia 14 806 2391 88 8/141 13/181 27.17 2.96 54.9 9 2
v Bangladesh 2 56.5 144 10 4/55 6/57 14.40 2.53 34.1 0 0
v England 13 728.2 1864 62 7/115 10/233 30.06 2.55 70.4 3 1
v New Zealand 11 601.4 1293 50 6/67 10/134 25.86 2.14 72.2 3 1
v Pakistan 9 492.5 1484 54 10/74 14/149 27.48 3.01 54.7 4 2
v South Africa 16 906.2 2084 66 6/53 8/113 31.57 2.29 82.3 3 0
v Sri Lanka 12 588.5 1535 46 7/59 11/128 33.36 2.60 76.8 2 1
v West Indies 13 559 1546 51 5/30 8/196 30.31 2.76 65.7 3 0
v Zimbabwe 5 314.1 674 34 5/63 9/145 19.82 2.14 55.4 2 0

in Australia 6 352.3 1160 29 8/141 12/279 40.00 3.29 72.9 3 1
in Bangladesh 2 56.5 144 10 4/55 6/57 14.40 2.53 34.1 0 0
in England 7 381.1 1008 22 4/66 7/159 45.81 2.64 103.9 0 0
in India 50 2751.3 6864 289 10/74 14/149 23.75 2.49 57.1 21 6
in New Zealand 3 191.3 443 11 4/83 6/153 40.27 2.31 104.4 0 0
in Pakistan 3 130.3 389 15 6/72 8/172 25.93 2.98 52.2 1 0
in South Africa 9 501.5 1095 31 6/53 8/113 35.32 2.18 97.1 1 0
in Sri Lanka 6 330.2 939 22 5/87 8/172 42.68 2.84 90.0 1 0
in West Indies 7 259.5 750 22 5/104 8/196 34.09 2.88 70.8 2 0
in Zimbabwe 2 98 223 10 4/87 7/129 22.30 2.27 58.8 0 0

 

[JASON]

Gee Jason,

Filter:                       M     R    HS    Ave   50s  100s   W       BB     Ave     5W  Ct  St
Kumble vs Australia: 14   283   39   17.68   0       0      88     8/141   27.17    9    6    0
Murali vs Australia  : 10    76    43   10.85   0       0      50     6/59     31.42    5    9    0

Filter:                       M     R    HS    Ave   50s  100s   W       BB     Ave     5W  Ct  St
Kumble in Australia:  6   117    28*  16.71   0       0      29     8/141   40.00     3   1    0
Murali in Australia  :  2    14     11    7.00    0       0       3      2/224   116.00   0   3    0

Filter:                            M     R    HS    Ave   50s  100s   W       BB     Ave     5W  Ct  St
Kumble at home vs Aus: 8    166    39   18.44   0      0      59      7/48   20.86     6    5    0
Murali at home vs Aus  : 8     62     43   12.40   0      0      47      6/59   26.02     5    6    0

Ouch !! Its gotta hurt been proven wrong on all counts. Are you feeling okay, Jason ? Or do you want to check out the colour of the coats of the umpires, like you suggested ?

I think your attempt to bluff by going back to the stats we have already analysed is quite pathetic Mate !!

We have discussed the above stats in the previous pages so I am not going to repeat like a parrott and your vain attempt to bluff this is quite laughable really !!

 

[Deja moo]

How come - 51 wickets in 7 tests v 43 wickets in 6

The difference is pretty marginal . But overall Murali's stats against all opposition is better -
Murali Career summary -

(6 ball overs) Mat O R W BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10

overall 93 5262.5 12340 549 9/51 16/220 22.47 2.34 57.5 46 14

v Australia 10 515.3 1571 50 6/59 11/212 31.42 3.04 61.8 5 1
v Bangladesh 2 89.5 209 20 5/13 10/98 10.45 2.32 26.9 4 2
v England 10 768.3 1431 69 9/65 16/220 20.73 1.86 66.8 4 2
v India 12 637 1680 51 8/87 11/196 32.94 2.63 74.9 3 1
v New Zealand 10 536 1232 52 5/30 9/227 23.69 2.29 61.8 4 0
v Pakistan 12 623.5 1622 68 6/71 10/148 23.85 2.60 55.0 4 1
v South Africa 13 821.4 1914 82 7/84 13/171 23.34 2.32 60.1 8 2
v West Indies 10 483.4 1214 70 8/46 11/170 17.34 2.50 41.4 8 3
v Zimbabwe 14 786.5 1467 87 9/51 13/115 16.86 1.86 54.2 6 2

in Australia 2 92 348 3 2/224 2/224 116.00 3.78 184.0 0 0
in England 3 239.5 517 24 9/65 16/220 21.54 2.15 59.9 3 1
in India 5 264.2 731 15 5/162 5/162 48.73 2.76 105.7 1 0
in New Zealand 4 167 382 13 5/64 6/105 29.38 2.28 77.0 1 0
in Pakistan 7 409.5 1053 49 6/71 10/148 21.48 2.56 50.1 2 1
in South Africa 6 353.1 911 35 6/39 11/161 26.02 2.57 60.5 3 1
in Sri Lanka 55 3225.3 7226 359 9/51 13/115 20.12 2.24 53.9 32 11
in West Indies 4 174.4 456 25 5/34 8/106 18.24 2.61 41.9 3 0
in Zimbabwe 7 336.3 716 26 6/45 8/82 27.53 2.12 77.6 1 0

Kumble overall Career Summary -

(6 ball overs) Mat O R W BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10

overall 95 5054 13015 461 10/74 14/149 28.23 2.57 65.7 29 7

v Australia 14 806 2391 88 8/141 13/181 27.17 2.96 54.9 9 2
v Bangladesh 2 56.5 144 10 4/55 6/57 14.40 2.53 34.1 0 0
v England 13 728.2 1864 62 7/115 10/233 30.06 2.55 70.4 3 1
v New Zealand 11 601.4 1293 50 6/67 10/134 25.86 2.14 72.2 3 1
v Pakistan 9 492.5 1484 54 10/74 14/149 27.48 3.01 54.7 4 2
v South Africa 16 906.2 2084 66 6/53 8/113 31.57 2.29 82.3 3 0
v Sri Lanka 12 588.5 1535 46 7/59 11/128 33.36 2.60 76.8 2 1
v West Indies 13 559 1546 51 5/30 8/196 30.31 2.76 65.7 3 0
v Zimbabwe 5 314.1 674 34 5/63 9/145 19.82 2.14 55.4 2 0

in Australia 6 352.3 1160 29 8/141 12/279 40.00 3.29 72.9 3 1
in Bangladesh 2 56.5 144 10 4/55 6/57 14.40 2.53 34.1 0 0
in England 7 381.1 1008 22 4/66 7/159 45.81 2.64 103.9 0 0
in India 50 2751.3 6864 289 10/74 14/149 23.75 2.49 57.1 21 6
in New Zealand 3 191.3 443 11 4/83 6/153 40.27 2.31 104.4 0 0
in Pakistan 3 130.3 389 15 6/72 8/172 25.93 2.98 52.2 1 0
in South Africa 9 501.5 1095 31 6/53 8/113 35.32 2.18 97.1 1 0
in Sri Lanka 6 330.2 939 22 5/87 8/172 42.68 2.84 90.0 1 0
in West Indies 7 259.5 750 22 5/104 8/196 34.09 2.88 70.8 2 0
in Zimbabwe 2 98 223 10 4/87 7/129 22.30 2.27 58.8 0 0

And yet the lesser bowler comes out on top when it comes to facing the best in the business. Interesting dont you think so? Dont you think its a last desperate refuge when you bring up the overall stats when the point being put forward was that Kumble is the better bowler against Australia ? Wouldnt it have saved us a lot of time if you had just right at the start accepted the fact that Kumble bowls better against the World Champs than Murali does instead of letting nationalistic pride come in the way ?