Richard said:
So how come these West Indian batsmen did not give their wickets away to him in the other 4 Tests on which he bowled (Sabina Park, Queen's Park Oval, Bridgetown and Old Trafford) against them that spring and summer? Isn't it rather a coincidence that they "gave their wickets away" on the turners and not on the non-turners?
Isn't it also a bit rich to say they gave their wickets away when you look at the number of wicket-taking deliveries he bowled?
The tracks at Trent Bridge, Lord's and Edgbaston last summer, meanwhile, turned from the first day - every bit as much as a typical subcontinent pitch, and I said from the first day of all 3 that Giles would be a handful.
And if the same thing happens against Australia this summer Giles will become a very potent strike-force.
first of all giles was going through a bad patch in the caribbean last winter even up to the final test against the kiwis where many where questioning his place in the England side, and the tracks in the caribbean where more helpful to the fast bowlers, come on didn't u watch the series it was the fast bowlers who had most effect for both WI & ENG.
Giles role in that series has it has been for most of his career was to contain, but because of his bad patch during that series, the ineffectiveness of his containing role wasn't missed has Harmison and rest ran havoc on the windies batsmen. I was their all 5 days here at Old Trafford and has was the case in the caribbean it didn't offer much assistance to the spinners.
he bowled wicket taking deliveries, yes........., but they were also many occasions where the WI batsmen gave their wickets away via bad shots, for E.G at the Old Trafford test in the second innings when WI had a 1st innings lead of 65 and Gayle & Sarwan were batting with so much ease, Vaughan intelligently set in out fields for Gayle & he hit Gilo right down to hoggard at long on, Sarwan & Mohammed were also out to poor stroke play and the amount of times he worked out dwayne bravo in the first two test with the tactic of bowling around the wicket to him & leaving the gap at mid-wicket & forcing him to play through the vacant gap had nothing to do with the turn in the pitch, that was inexperice, stupidity & good captaincy on Vaughan's part, their were also some rough decision towards the WI batsmen so the argument of Giles getting wickets via poor shots, wicket-taking deliveries & rough decisions by the umpire can go on and on.
and i totally disagree that were your theory that the pitches at those 3 venue's turned similary to sub-continent proportions no way. At trent bridge i dont recall Giles spinning the ball that much on day 1, the spin came more on the on day 4 when if u can recall he bowled around the wicket into the rough where there was assistance for him, Lord's had some turn but has is my point it cannot be compared to a typical Mumbai or Chennai pitch on day 1, neither was the case at edgbagston since the only spinner on view for the entire first day ``SARWAN`` barely extracted turn, the turn came more later in the test match.
His role could alter a bit, but you have to read between the lines the shots that the WI batsmen played were poor at times & the tactics Vaughan used againts them as to the one he used againts Bravo, he definately wont use againts Australia. You cant compare those pitches to sub-continent like pitches since they were not so much of similar to sub-continent proportions. So basically his role will be to contain, so i dont see how he will become a potent strike force in the series, you are the only one who has that idea
)
