England's Ashes hopes vs Australia's sure Ashes chances

[Neil Pickup]

"Having said that, i feel the main battle in this series is going to be between our bowler and the Aus batsmen. I beleive that Hoggy, Freddie and Gilo are going to hold their own all the way through the series and it is going to be tough for the Aussies, but if Harmy hits the straps early on and continues throughout, i dare say the Aus bowlers are not going to have much to bowl at."

I Disagree, I think ponting, Martn and Gilchrist will eat the english bowlers for breakfast. They aren;t that good, even when harmoinson was in form nz hit scores of 400 in the first innings without batting well. Australia will get much more plus they will score heaps in the 2nd innings too

Wev'e established that you're unabled to talk objectively about England...

 

[Langeveldt]

why..should we be mourning the disapearance of a decent South African team or something

I'd love to drum up the results of our last few encounters, where you were only given a hint of respectability by a South African in the first place... But of course, only Test cricket counts when England are doing well at it , so I wont bother..

 

[Zinzan]

I'd say it's a fair bet we'll take at least one test off The Crims, it's a long while since we haven't won at least one.

The sad fact is tho that we've only won one live test since 86/87 when the urn was still at stake. I'm hoping we can at least double that total this year (to 2 live wins overall, not 2 live wins in the series, think that's altogether too optimistic).

3-1 to the Aussies sounds about right.

I really can't see England winning even 1 test (let alone drawing 1 unless rain comes into play).

Even though England did NZ 3-0 last year. New Zealand did manage reasonable first innings totals in every test, only to have their usual collaspe in the 2nd innings. Given what NZ batsmen achieved on last year tour and seeing the gap between Australia's batting and NZ's, I can't see the english bowling keeping Aussies under 500 in the first innings very often. The 2nd problem they have is they won't be facing the NZ bowlers, but instead Mcgrath, Glliispie, Lee or Kaspa and Warne.

I can see this being even more of a hiding than NZ got

 

[Top_Cat]

Well I've covered this ground before but if Giles, Tescothick and Harmison have good series, I think England may win it. Teams who've struggled against Australia have generally done so because they've got off to a bad start so they're behind in the game really quickly. The Aussies don't do anywhere near as well when the opposition get off to a good start. This is why the openers need to stand up because if a few wickets are down, it's much harder for the middle-order to come back.

Couple that with if Harmi takes a couple early and Giles then bowls well to the middle-order and you have the potential for a series win. I'm pretty optimistic of a series win for the Aussies but the English do have a good chance this time. That's IF their heavy schedule for the last year doesn't knock out a couple of injured players.

 

[Zinzan]

Well I've covered this ground before but if Giles, Tescothick and Harmison have good series, I think England may win it. Teams who've struggled against Australia have generally done so because they've got off to a bad start so they're behind in the game really quickly. The Aussies don't do anywhere near as well when the opposition get off to a good start. This is why the openers need to stand up because if a few wickets are down, it's much harder for the middle-order to come back.

Couple that with if Harmi takes a couple early and Giles then bowls well to the middle-order and you have the potential for a series win. I'm pretty optimistic of a series win for the Aussies but the English do have a good chance this time. That's IF their heavy schedule for the last year doesn't knock out a couple of injured players.

Interesting that your rose-tinted classes lead you to that prediction....

One question please??

How many English players would make this Aust test side at the moment??

I would say a big fat zero !!!

How can you beat a team that is better player for player??

You are underestimating this Australia side big-time !!

IMO the greatest cricket side ever !!! With no obvious weaknesses

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

England's chances depend on Harmison and Flintoff with the ball in my view.

My tip as it was in the other thread is 3-1 to Australia.

 

[aussie]

aussie

England's chances depend on Harmison and Flintoff with the ball in my view.

My tip as it was in the other thread is 3-1 to Australia.

well faaip i got that same kinda result in my head either 3-1 or 4-1, if australia are dominant from the start of a series on past & recent evidence they tend to drop a test when the series has already been decided

 

[Top_Cat]

Interesting that your rose-tinted classes lead you to that prediction.

Interesting that in your rush to be condescending, you didn't notice I'm an Aussie. To borrow an English term, you MUPPET.

One question please??

How many English players would make this Aust test side at the moment??

A few at least; Harmison (not on form but when he was bowling well a few months back, absolutely), Thorpe, Strauss, Vaughan, Flintoff. I'm not talking on potential or ability either; on performance in the last two years, any of those guys would be good enough.

How can you beat a team that is better player for player??

So what if the Aussies are a better side on paper? England in 1989 were a far superior side on paper yet they lost 4-0 and went through 29 players in the series trying to find players competitive with the Aussies. Players, no matter how good they are, must play as a team to win. The Aussies are doing just that and AS I SAID, I think they'll win but England will be very competitive.

IMO the greatest cricket side ever !!! With no obvious weaknesses

As far as form goes, there are worries with Hayden and Michael Clarke but largely I agree.

 

[Zinzan]

Interesting that in your rush to be condescending, you didn't notice I'm an Aussie. To borrow an English term, you MUPPET.



A few at least; Harmison (not on form but when he was bowling well a few months back, absolutely), Thorpe, Strauss, Vaughan, Flintoff. I'm not talking on potential or ability either; on performance in the last two years, any of those guys would be good enough.



So what if the Aussies are a better side on paper? England in 1989 were a far superior side on paper yet they lost 4-0 and went through 29 players in the series trying to find players competitive with the Aussies. Players, no matter how good they are, must play as a team to win. The Aussies are doing just that and AS I SAID, I think they'll win but England will be very competitive.



As far as form goes, there are worries with Hayden and Michael Clarke but largely I agree.

Right u r....thought you were a pom.

But really who would Thorpe, Vaughan, Struass and Flintoff replace if avaliable for this aussie side??

 

[vic_orthdox]

thorpe <----> katich
strauss <----> hayden
flintoff <----> clarke
vaughan <----> langer (or any of the above)

last of these probably most controversial, and langer doesn't deserve to be dropped, but i reckon that vaughan is a better player than langer...and probably a better captain than ponting (not saying that vaughan would captain australia).

 

[Top_Cat]

But really who would Thorpe, Vaughan, Struass and Flintoff replace if avaliable for this aussie side??

Flintoff could be considered ahead of Katich, Strauss against Langer, Vaughan could challenge any place in the side, etc. I'm not saying who is better but I'm considering the scenario in the following way; say Flintoff and Katich were both out of the side and it was down to them for one spot, who would win? Out of Strauss and Langer, who would win. Personally I'd pick Langer based on the fact that he's done the business for many years now but as far as raw ability goes, tough choice.

 

[honestbharani]

3-1 or 3-2 to Australia and I expect (and hope) that England win a LIVE test this time.

 

[Zinzan]

Flintoff could be considered ahead of Katich, Strauss against Langer, Vaughan could challenge any place in the side, etc. I'm not saying who is better but I'm considering the scenario in the following way; say Flintoff and Katich were both out of the side and it was down to them for one spot, who would win? Out of Strauss and Langer, who would win. Personally I'd pick Langer based on the fact that he's done the business for many years now but as far as raw ability goes, tough choice.

Possibly Flintoff for Katich, but personally i don't feel aussie need the extra bowler. If they did they would drop Katich anyway and have Gilly come in at 6 and bring Lee in.

As for the others .....we disagree

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

A composite side at the moment would be tough without seeing the Ashes first, but in terms of who would come into the Australian side if all the English players were available, Flintoff would be fairly certain for me. He's a quality bowler and while he's not in Katich's class as a batsman he's not too far off.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

thorpe <----> katich
strauss <----> hayden
flintoff <----> clarke
vaughan <----> langer (or any of the above)

last of these probably most controversial, and langer doesn't deserve to be dropped, but i reckon that vaughan is a better player than langer...and probably a better captain than ponting (not saying that vaughan would captain australia).

Katich is better than Thorpe in my book, Strauss is unproven in comparison to the Australian opening pair which has done the business for years now, Flintoff would replace Katich and not Clarke, and Langer was one of the form batsmen in the world last year and wouldn't be dropped for anyone. He would in fact the be world XI opening partner for Sehwag today, almost without question.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Katich is better than Thorpe in my book, Strauss is unproven in comparison to the Australian opening pair which has done the business for years now, Flintoff would replace Katich and not Clarke, and Langer was one of the form batsmen in the world last year and wouldn't be dropped for anyone. He would in fact the be world XI opening partner for Sehwag today, almost without question.

i'm not necessarily saying that i think that one would be chosen over the other in any of these situations...too many variables. but someone asked who could make way for english players, and i think that half decent cases can be made for the above changes.

 

[Top_Cat]

i'm not necessarily saying that i think that one would be chosen over the other in any of these situations...too many variables. but someone asked who could make way for english players, and i think that half decent cases can be made for the above changes.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. I'm not saying player X should be in the side ahead of Y but that all things being equal, the English players I mentioned are up to the 'standard' of the Aussie players.

 

[Zinzan]

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. I'm not saying player X should be in the side ahead of Y but that all things being equal, the English players I mentioned are up to the 'standard' of the Aussie players.

Its still only 3 or 4 world class players compared to 11

 

[psxpro]

There is no way vaughn is in the same class as langer as a batsman.

 

[psxpro]

Wev'e established that you're unabled to talk objectively about England...

I am talking objextively, its just that the poms are overating themseleves as usual.
They are a class test team, easily no 2. But there is no doubt the aussies are so much better in every department.
It wont even be close, infact I can't see England coming any closer than NZ did becasue Aus will play giles better than vettori.