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Thread: Most underrated and overrated players in the world?

  1. #151
    International Captain LongHopCassidy's Avatar
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    Overrated: I'll be crucified, but I reckon Harmison. Ripping apart hapless Windies and Kiwis does not a paceman make. He might be a form player, but he hasn't impressed me against a formidable Test nation.

    Underrated: Yousuf Youhana. A Test average of damn near 50 and he's always been regarded as Inzy's understudy.
    I also think MacGill got a raw deal.
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  2. #152
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongHopCassidy
    Overrated: I'll be crucified, but I reckon Harmison. Ripping apart hapless Windies and Kiwis does not a paceman make.
    It depends on how he does it - if he does it by bowling extremely well, it most certainly does. If he does it by bowling very few wicket-taking deliveries (as in Harmison's case), it doesn't.
    Underrated: Yousuf Youhana. A Test average of damn near 50 and he's always been regarded as Inzy's understudy.
    Maybe that's because his Test-average is actually 42.55 (that average of 251 against Bangladesh sure makes a difference), and that he averages 29.6 against Australia, 24.5 against Sri Lanka and 16.85 against South Africa?
    All his runs have come against the weak attacks of Zimbabwe, West Indies and New Zealand (and by and large on incredibly flat pitches), and he's scored very heavily against England at home - but not, amazingly enough, in England.
    Youhana is one of the most overrated batsmen ever - he's certainly the one who's benefited most from Bangladesh.
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  3. #153
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Which means that every person in International Cricket has the wrong mental approach then...

    Or maybe you might be wrong?
    Because every batsman has got out cheaply when McGrath's bowling, haven't they?

  4. #154
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    Keep digging.
    Keep ducking, it won't change the fact that it's fact.


  5. #155
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    most people think hes rubbish. i think hes particularly useful when he plays in conditions that suit him. hence hes underrated.
    The perception I've got is not that he's rubbish, it's the usual "he plays for Australia regularly so he must be OK" stuff.

  6. #156
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    obviously not, because if he hasnt bowled well in the worst phase of his career, it obviously means he was doing the same before that.
    I've never heard anyone else say that 2001-2005 is the worst phrase in McGrath's career.

  7. #157
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    he was rubbish before, and after, how had he changed?
    He wasn't rubbish before.
    Simple.
    not counting his performances against b'desh, zim and the like
    Oh, come on! Even you've admitted Zimbabwe were ODI-class before 2000, so you can't take out games against them in WC99 and before.
    his ER stands at 4.34, and if thats the only time in his entire career where hes actually been somewhat decent, its horrible. not to mention of course that you've already claimed that anything above 4.2 is extremely poor even if its not as poor as being over 4.5.
    Not counting the games after 1999 when he was very badly injured, his ER stands at 4.38, not terrible given a remarkable average of 18.83. Even when you get rid of the games against Scotland and Bangladesh it's 20.68 at 4.6-an-over - the economy-rate's poor but the average is so exceptional that he can still be called a pretty useful bowler.
    And you still haven't adressed the fact that most of his meaningful career was that part - so it's not like it was a small segment.
    no you cant just type random garbage like that and say that you didnt mean it. as far as im concerned, i could type in something as stupid as rikki clarke is a better all rounder than flintoff, and the next day say that only a fool would not be able to figure out what i was talking about.
    Depends how clearly it was said - maybe you need to make a little more allowance and not try to jump on anything that could be interpreted to be incorrect, then there might - just might - be a few less long-post wars.

  8. #158
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    The perception I've got is not that he's rubbish, it's the usual "he plays for Australia regularly so he must be OK" stuff.
    no most people, including australians think hes rubbish, even though hes good enough to make their ODI side.
    Tendulkar = the most overated player EVER!!
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    Vassell = the biggest disgrace since rikki clarke!!

  9. #159
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    I've never heard anyone else say that 2001-2005 is the worst phrase in McGrath's career.
    no its not. but the period that included the series against NZ and the WI was. but of course since you missed half of the rest of the series, and consider the other half to be seamer friendly wickets, anomalies and what not, it only leaves those 2 poor series, which you desperately cling on to to suggest that mcgrath isnt a great bowler.

  10. #160
    International Coach tooextracool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    He wasn't rubbish before.
    Simple. .
    as explained by his fabulous ER of 5.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Oh, come on! Even you've admitted Zimbabwe were ODI-class before 2000, so you can't take out games against them in WC99 and before.
    no i cant, but i can damn sure take out games that were on complete seamer friendly tracks, which this game most certainly was on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Not counting the games after 1999 when he was very badly injured, his ER stands at 4.38, not terrible given a remarkable average of 18.83. Even when you get rid of the games against Scotland and Bangladesh it's 20.68 at 4.6-an-over - the economy-rate's poor but the average is so exceptional that he can still be called a pretty useful bowler..
    oh shut up, 4.6 is rubbish at any point of your career irrespective of the average. had he not played on those seamer friendly wickets in the world cup, his average would have been as disgraceful as his test average.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    And you still haven't adressed the fact that most of his meaningful career was that part - so it's not like it was a small segment.
    it was 1 series! on a bunch of seamer friendly wickets, and even then when you remove performances against clearly inferior sides and clearly seamer friendly wickets its still poor. as i said earlier, he was rubbish before the wc and rubbish after, he was simply what you claim bichel was, peaked at the right time before displaying his mediocrity again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard
    Depends how clearly it was said - maybe you need to make a little more allowance and not try to jump on anything that could be interpreted to be incorrect, then there might - just might - be a few less long-post wars.
    maybe you need to learn to type, instead of coming up with random garbage whenever you feel like and trying to get away with it. foolish comments such as the australian side bar hayden arent especially good players of spin, was simply insulting the likes of martyn and katich, and its even more insulting when it comes from people like you who'd never watched either of them play spin.

  11. #161
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Lovely to see Hayden and Lee CONTINUING to do well!

    Enjoy Richard and TEC!

  12. #162
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    TEC and Richard. You guys need to don the gloves and sort it out in the old fashioned way.

  13. #163
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    no its not. but the period that included the series against NZ and the WI was. but of course since you missed half of the rest of the series, and consider the other half to be seamer friendly wickets, anomalies and what not, it only leaves those 2 poor series, which you desperately cling on to to suggest that mcgrath isnt a great bowler.
    No, I do nothing of the sort.
    I just don't use the figures he's got - I use watching the strokes played to get those figures (and where I don't watch I read).
    And I see that if his figures are good - game-by-game, innings-by-innings, and totally disregard it when you try to bring series into it - it's usually down to poor strokes.
    And if the pitch offers seam or uneven bounce (ain't like that's often happened) I know that he's more than capable of bowling well so I don't look much at it.

  14. #164
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooextracool
    as explained by his fabulous ER of 5.0
    No, of 4.38.
    no i cant, but i can damn sure take out games that were on complete seamer friendly tracks, which this game most certainly was on.
    Despite the fact that he's played on plenty of non-seaming tracks and they're evened-up.
    oh shut up, 4.6 is rubbish at any point of your career irrespective of the average.
    It is, but someone can be forgiven a rubbish economy-rate if his average is exceptional, and 18.83 is exceptional.
    had he not played on those seamer friendly wickets in the world cup, his average would have been as disgraceful as his test average.
    You can't know that, the rest of his meaningful ODI-career numbers so few games. And we all know what a bad idea comparing Tests and ODIs are, don't we?
    it was 1 series! on a bunch of seamer friendly wickets, and even then when you remove performances against clearly inferior sides and clearly seamer friendly wickets its still poor. as i said earlier, he was rubbish before the wc and rubbish after, he was simply what you claim bichel was, peaked at the right time before displaying his mediocrity again.
    So if you pick-and-choose, finding excuses for almost everything, you can find he's a poor bowler.
    maybe you need to learn to type, instead of coming up with random garbage whenever you feel like and trying to get away with it. foolish comments such as the australian side bar hayden arent especially good players of spin, was simply insulting the likes of martyn and katich, and its even more insulting when it comes from people like you who'd never watched either of them play spin.
    Despite the fact I've watched Katich play spin several times, and I've also spoken to people who've watched him play and also said he's not great against it.
    As supposed to you who've watched him play 3 innings.

  15. #165
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social
    Lovely to see Hayden and Lee CONTINUING to do well!

    Enjoy Richard and TEC!
    Wow - a whole 2 games.
    1 in Hayden's case - given that his innings in the 1st game was a very, very poor one indeed.

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