Is Pathan more talented than Akram was at his early phase?

[vic_orthdox]

You think talking about what you did wrong/could've done on the field AFTER the day's play has the same level of impact as getting advice from a great bowler IN BETWEEN deliveries ?

i think that just about every national coach would disagree with you on that one. in-depth analysis after a days play, away from the heat of battle, is more beneficial - especially in the long term - than what a few words of advice between balls will ever be. it allows experimentation, a better analysis of the technical and biomechanics of the bowler, ability to reduce the potential for injury. imran would have only been recommending how to get a certain batsman out. by talking about what should have been done on the field allows someone to become a good cricketer

 

[Anil]

ANd let's not forget what an amazing player of spin Martin Crowe was too. All in the footwork and his footwork was up there with the very best.

absolutely!!! crowe was a fantastic batsman.....extremely talented and definitely one of the modern day greats....to hell with statistics...i have seen him bat and that's enough....

 

[bryce]

yeah it was too bad he went through rough injury and psychological problems.

 

[marc71178]

No, not really. But Pathan is still very talented, and deserves the praise he gets in my opinion. The praise is just exaggerated a bit

More than just a little IMO

 

[marc71178]

Arjun- i dont think you've seen Pathan bowl much. He is pretty darn good with the new ball...infact his genuine weakness right now is bowling with the old ball......and averages ? Care to tell me what was Imran Khan's bowling average at a similar stage ?

After 7 games - 38.63

 

[masterblaster]

Well then there's hope for Pathan isn't there.....?

 

[wahindiawah]

Irfan is just NINETEEN !!! Can anyone think of any other teenage pacer with such potentials???

I think in 2-3 years Pathan will become the leading pacer of the world.This guy has all the potential to end up as one of the best pacer that India ever had.

 

[Tony Blade]

Hes 20 now

 

[Deja moo]

^ Dammit....... we can no longer boast of having the most promising teen sensation !!

 

[tooextracool]

great is a lot more than just fluent and stylish batting. by that standard, saleem malik, azharuddin, kallicharan and dough walters are great.
like i said before, i reserve the title 'great' for the creme de la creme.
the likes of Sobers,Viv,Greg Chappell, Border,Gavaskar,Miandad,Lara,Tendulkar,etc.

Crowe was very very good. But not great..

anybody who considers crowe to be anything but great must seriously have their head examined, let alone putting players like lara and tendulkar ahead of him......you yourself have said that the side on which crowe played on had no one anywhere near world class, surely someone who performed consistently with the bat on all pitches against every opposition despite having all that pressure on him must be a great player?

 

[tooextracool]

great is a lot more than just fluent and stylish batting. by that standard, saleem malik,

any reason why hes not? while he was not as good as martin crowe who scored everywhere in the world, he was a very very good batsman.

azharuddin,

err perhaps because he had an average of 55 at home and 36 away?

kallicharan

again why not?

and dough walters are great.

skewed home/away average

 

[marc71178]

Irfan is just NINETEEN !!! Can anyone think of any other teenage pacer with such potentials???

I think in 2-3 years Pathan will become the leading pacer of the world.

And herein lies the reason why he won't (apart from the fact that there'll still be the likes of Gillespie around at that time)

Too much pressure being put on him by comments like that.

 

[C_C]

anybody who considers crowe to be anything but great must seriously have their head examined, let alone putting players like lara and tendulkar ahead of him......you yourself have said that the side on which crowe played on had no one anywhere near world class, surely someone who performed consistently with the bat on all pitches against every opposition despite having all that pressure on him must be a great player?

you are the first person i've heard who's gonna rate Crowe in Tendy/lara class, let alone better.
Crowe's 'greatness' = fluent playing style and 45+ average. Lara and Tendy's greatness = fluent playnig style and 50+/56+ average......
whats next ? damien martyn is a great too ?




tooextracool- i define 'great' batsmen as the top 10/15 batsmen of alltime.....tendy,lara,sobers,viv,border,greg chappell,miandad,gavaskar,bradman,etc. are all in that list. Crowe isnt.

 

[tooextracool]

you are the first person i've heard who's gonna rate Crowe in Tendy/lara class, let alone better.
Crowe's 'greatness' = fluent playing style and 45+ average. Lara and Tendy's greatness = fluent playnig style and 50+/56+ average......
whats next ? damien martyn is a great too ?.

you do know that both lara and tendulkar have got to play on flatter wickets and poorer quality bowling dont you?
as far as tendulkar is concerned, ive said it many many times before, hes nothing but an Flat Track Bully, the fact that i hav to look back to perth 1991 to think of the last time he succeeded in seamer friendly conditions says enough.
as far as lara is concerned look at his record between 96-00 and see for yourself how lara was a shade of his former self.

tooextracool- i define 'great' batsmen as the top 10/15 batsmen of alltime.....tendy,lara,sobers,viv,border,greg chappell,miandad,gavaskar,bradman,etc. are all in that list. Crowe isnt.

martin crowe would very well be on that list if you ask me, certainly ahead of tendulkar and lara.

 

[C_C]

poorer bowling ?
eh ?
The reason the 80s were on par with the 90s in terms of bowling was due to the WI pace quartet alone..

Lets see....80s vs 90s:

80s WI is superior attack to any in the 90s
90s PAK is superior to the 80s PAK ( except for the fey end of the 80s where Imran-Wasim-Waqar-Qadir bowled in tandem for a short while)
90s AUS better than any 80s attack bar WI
90s RSA better than any 80s attack bar WI

Tendy is a flat track bully ? i can give you atleast FIFTEEN innings where he did very well in bowler friendly conditions.......
Perth was the last time you saw him play well in bowler-friendly conditions ?
You must've been snoozing for the past 10 years then...for you missed PAK vs IND in Chennai.

Lara was a shade of his former self ...key word is former self. He still averaged 40+ between 1996 and 2000. And last time i checked, Sabina Park and Bridgetown are not flat tracks

And Crowe averages 42 away from Home.........Tendy : 54+, Lara: 49+. so much for Crowe 'performing better on all kinds of wickets'.

Crowe is to Lara/Tendy what Boone was to Border, Langer is to Hayden.
ie, very very good, but simply not in their class.

as far as lara and Tendy goes, they are not only great,they are in the highest echelon- top 5 batsmen EVER.

 

[tooextracool]

EDIT: these arguments have been stated before so i dont want to get into the whole thing all over again. go back to one of the 'is tendulkar a choker threads' to find out what i think about tendulkar.

 

[SJS]

PATHAN as on date and Akram at same stage:-

Tests : -
Bowling......IRFAN..........AKRAM
Matches.........7.................7
Wickets.........18................26
Average........43.1.............22.12
Strike Rate....86.3.............56.31
Eco Rate........3.0..............2.35
5 in inngs........0................2
10 in match......0...............1

Batting
Runs...........178...............37
Average......25.4...............7.4
Highest.......55.................19
Fifties..........1...................0

ODI's
Bowling........IRFAN........AKRAM
Matches.........27..................27
Wickets..........46.................35
Average.........25.98.............20.8
Eco Rate........4.99..............3.71
Str Rate.........31.24............33.66
4 in an inns......1.......................2

Batting
Runs.............209...............64
Average.........17.42.............8
Highest............38...............24

Clearly at a comparable stage (after 7 tests and 27 ODI's) Imran is a far better batsman than Wasim was. As a bowler, Wasim was clearly better in test matches though the figures in ODI's (as bowlers) are comparable.

Form your own verdict !!

 

[Anil]

you just cannot predict how irfan is going to turn out....although i don't think he is in wasim's class, i feel he has the potential to be a very good bowler....and considering india's pace bowling travails, very good is very, very, very good......however, we can only hope.....i remember predicting a hell of a lot about siva and s. vishwanath when they started their international careers....i saw how that fizzled out.....for all the talent in the world, there is always that human factor which is just too unpredictable....i just hope he stays the course and realizes whatever potential he has....

 

[bryce]

lol SJS i posted something like that on the first page of this thread

 

[tooextracool]

As a bowler, Wasim was clearly better in test matches though the figures in ODI's (as bowlers) are comparable.

how are they even close to being comparable? one averages 20 with an ER of 3.7 and another averages 25 with an ER of 5, there is a major major difference between the 2.