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Thread: who is the english player most likely to scratch the ball

  1. #46
    State Captain Adders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvelocity View Post
    fielders bounce throwing from the ring or thereabouts when there is no chance of a runout on = scuffing up the ball

    in fact with their gun arms, bounce throwing from anywhere when there is no runout on = scuffing up the ball. and 90% of them can throw flat on the full from anywhere, which is preferable to a bounce throw when going for a run out anyway anyway
    I reckon that's true enough, but how is throwing the ball on the bounce to scuff up one side any different to rubbing the crap out of the other side on your trousers to shine it up?? It amounts to the same thing doesn't it??
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  2. #47
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    absolutely (imo)
    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts.. . For support rather than illumination. " - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

  3. #48
    International Coach uvelocity's Avatar
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    what the rules say (iirc) is that shining is 'preserving the condition' whereas scuffing is 'altering the condition' or something to that effect. bollocks in other words.

  4. #49
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adders View Post
    Perhaps some of you more knowledgeable folk can explain this to me, cos this is something I've never understood...........

    So the theory behind reverse swing is that you want one side of the ball scuffed up while maintaining the shine on the other. Throwing the ball back in on the bounce is done to assist scuffing up the rough side, but when they throw the ball in on the bounce how on earth do they know what side will hit the dirt?? Surely there is just as much chance of damaging the side they are looking after??

    Clearly the theory works but it just doesn't make sense to me.
    It hits both sides just as regularly, however, it doesn't really matter if it hits the shinny side, because you can usually repair it pretty easily by shining it. Obviously if you just leave the rough side alone it will get scuffed up pretty quickly. The whole thing rely's on you working really hard to maintain the shine on one side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    This English top three are cornflakes. They're not the most exciting thing out but they're pretty effective. Then the middle order are the sugar. Would be too much on their own but added to the cornflakes they add some much needed interest

    When KP returns he will be the banana..


  5. #50
    Cricketer Of The Year Cabinet96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social View Post
    Firstly, the last thing that you want to do when trying to hit the stumps is throw on the bounce as it slows up the throw and has the potential to divert the ball's direction
    I'm not so sure about this. It means you can throw it a lot flatter, and if it hits a practice wicket, it won't slow down that much.

  6. #51
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by social View Post
    Firstly, the last thing that you want to do when trying to hit the stumps is throw on the bounce as it slows up the throw and has the potential to divert the ball's direction

    Secondly, it's illegal if sides are doing it to change the condition of the ball
    Rubbish, a low, flat throw that's bounced in gets there quicker than a throw that's floated in over the stumps.

    It's why the 'don't bounce the ball' in rule is unenforcable. Because there's no doubt that England do it to scuff the ball up but they've got a perfectly reasonable answer for why they do it when they're pressed.

  7. #52
    Hall of Fame Member Furball's Avatar
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    Someone on Sky Sports News put it perfectly.

    All teams will admit that they alter the condition of the ball. No-one will admit to ball tampering.

  8. #53
    International Coach flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    Someone on Sky Sports News put it perfectly.

    All teams will admit that they alter the condition of the ball. No-one will admit to ball tampering.
    Vic Marks on the cricket writers programme this morning.

    I have no real problem if they come out and say doing it in the long run is fine but as it stands at present anyone guilty of doing it needs punishing regardless of who he plays for.

  9. #54
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    The "bouncing the ball in" rule only gets applied when it's not very subtle; i.e. throwing the ball back from mid-off into the keeper on the bounce, when there's not a run out on or anything. Never get pulled up if you are trying to go for a run-out or throwing it in from the boundary.

    And while some guys are good at throwing a "flying saucer" in to get the ball to hit the rough side, most of the time you don't really care, just rough the ball up and try and shine/smoothen out the smooth side. White balls don't really "shine up" anyway.

    Even if you couldn't get reverse swing using such tactics, you would probably use the same tactics to try and soften the ball as quickly as possible, especially on slower wickets.

  10. #55
    U19 Debutant Biryani Pillow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    The "bouncing the ball in" rule only gets applied when it's not very subtle; i.e. throwing the ball back from mid-off into the keeper on the bounce, when there's not a run out on or anything. Never get pulled up if you are trying to go for a run-out or throwing it in from the boundary.
    True.

    Even in Club cricket umpires will tell bowlers off if, when bowling 'warm up' deliveries to a fielder, they bowl into the ground and not full toss.

  11. #56
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    Global Moderator / Cricket Web Staff Member Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biryani Pillow View Post
    True.

    Even in Club cricket umpires will tell bowlers off if, when bowling 'warm up' deliveries to a fielder, they bowl into the ground and not full toss.
    Strictly speaking, that's against the laws now. Must be on the full toss IIRC.

  12. #57
    International Captain hendrix's Avatar
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    well that's one area that umpires can legitimately crack down upon then.

  13. #58
    International Captain wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Just read through this thread. Yeah look anyone seriously advocating legalising ball tampering needs to think things through a bit more carefully. Balls would be getting replaced every two overs ffs, you could literally just pull it apart if you didn't like it. Not to mention the massive variable bounce that could be gained by splitting the seam which would just be **** viewing, not skill based at all.
    Exit pursuing a beer

  14. #59
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey View Post
    "He knows that one individual is scratching the ball for England -- who I am not going to name -- and that's why the ball was changed," insisted Willis, one of England's greatest fast bowlers.

    ICC Champions Trophy: Bob Willis accuses England of ball-tampering in match against Sri Lanka | ICC Champions Trophy 2013 - News | NDTVSports.com
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  15. #60
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW1304 View Post
    Surely with all the cameras around the ground we could actually see some evidence before making a judgement on this?
    The precedence is to disregard such evidence and go by umpire's decision ONLY. If you don't believe me ask Darrel Hair.
    Last edited by Migara; 19-06-2013 at 10:52 AM.

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