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Thread: England's Problems (Potential answers?)

  1. #16
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    I think Broad might make a decent skipper - reckon it would do wonders for his batting, but probably not a lot for his bowling, so best left for a while imo - I'd still be inclined to give KP the poisoned chalice - might be the making of him and if not who cares - he's always going to get runs, 'cos he's an arrogant tosser like that

  2. #17
    Cricket Web Staff Member fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    So many general England team discussions threads, getting confused.
    Precam and his multis trying to destabilise the place

  3. #18
    International Debutant Adders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wpdavid View Post

    I'd happily give the job to KP, but I know you differ. Can't recall if you provided any reasons though.

    .
    I didn't.

    I was right behind KP when he had the job and thought he looked like he could make a good fist of it, I also thought the way the ECB handled the whole Moores debacle was appalling and KP got sold down the river. But what happened during the Saffer series is still not forgotten, KP nearly destroyed this team and tbh is lucky he is even playing test cricket today and not roaming the world confined to T20 leagues.

    That's all in the past now, he's back in the fold and hasn't put a foot wrong since and if the talk of dressing room harmony is to be believed then clearly the rest of the team have got past it too, but I don't think they would have forgotten either and would never accept or respect him as captain.

  4. #19
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    Matt Prior would be a really good captain. Aggressive and good tactical thinker, but obviously he is playing like **** and WK + skip is too big anyway.


  5. #20
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    Yep, if Matt Prior was still a lock in for a spot then he'd be my choice if we did axe Cook. Apparently he was fairly instrumental in mending a lot of bridges after the KP **** went down.

  6. #21
    International Vice-Captain Riggins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91Jmay View Post
    Matt Prior would be a really good captain. Aggressive and good tactical thinker, but obviously he is playing like **** and WK + skip is too big anyway.
    If he remembers how to hit the ball you could just play him at 6 as a batsman? Never going to average 50 but low-mid 40's and if he's a good captain it could be a good move.
    The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.

  7. #22
    U19 12th Man Cooky Monster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post
    How many England threads do we have now? I can't remember which one is which.

    On Compton, obviously it is impossible to know but I would guess that he would have produced similar reuslts to Carberry. Both are more than capable of scoring hundreds against Sri Lanka and probably India this coming summer but neither is a long term option.
    What is it with this 'hes not a long term option crap' i keep seeing everywhere, its a load of bull****, Compton is 30 ffs, its all about the here and now, who gives a **** if Compton won't be around in 5/6 years? if hes the best bat then he should be in the side, same goes for Carberry, if hes up to it then there is no problem.

    Do we stick with Root and Bairstow even though they are not good enough just because they are long term options? its this bull**** flawed logic thats played a part in this **** stain of a tour.

    Nothing personal btw Pothas, its just that i keep seeing that said and it winds be up because its a total nonsense.
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  8. #23
    U19 12th Man Cooky Monster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbyrne91 View Post
    Seems to me we have a lot of problems right now.

    I would say that the majority of that is down to inconsistency in selections.

    1) Batsmen. Nick Compton was dropped for seemingly being too inconsistent at the top of the order, he was also going slow - but it now seems like that may not have been Compton's fault and just the fact (as I said at the time) that Cook has drained all positiveness out of these batsmen and they all seem scared to give their wickets away. Replaced by Joe Root, who, asides from scoring one hundred (Compton scored two), didn't seem to do a lot right either, who was in turn replaced by Carberry at the top of the order. Root dropped down to six, so perhaps England felt that he wasn't good enough against the new ball (otherwise why would you drop him from opening in the first place?).

    So after one test match when Trott goes home, Root is instantly promoted back to number three, where he could (and has) faced a ball before the opener at the other end has faced a ball - does that make sense considering he was dropped from this spot just one match before? In the first test Root scored 2 and 26*. Is that enough to get you your place back at the top of the order? Seems so according to England.

    2) Bowlers. In a seemingly similar situtation Steven Finn was dropped after the first test match at Trent Bridge in the summer, Cook refused to turn to Finn on that final morning when it looked like we were going to lose the game. Since then Finn didn't do anything of note for Middlesex yet instantly regained his position in the squad ahead of other quick bowlers (Onions) - and also when we had two "tall" bowlers in the squad.

    Tremlett - purely picked on a hunch and the fact he was decent down under last time. 32 wickets at an average of 33 for Surrey in Championship Cricket yet he was picked ahead of Onions, Jordan, Rushworth, Anyon, Sidebottom etc. etc.. (all whom took more wickets than him in Championship Cricket).

    3) Wicketkeeper. When the squad was selected in was said that "there is no back up keeper" "oh it doesn't matter unless Prior breaks a finger we won't need one". I think it was ahead of the first test (might have been the second) when Prior had a leg injury (?) and was a doubt for the test. At that point we should have called up whoever was a proper wicketkeeper batsmen. Whether that was Davies, Buttler, Kieswetter, Read, Foster etc. etc.. just a proper wicketkeeper.

    Again Bairstow - dropped in the summer for not scoring enough runs he regained his place in the side by doing NOTHING.


    Does this show that England is a closed shop? Finn, Bairstow and Tremlett for me do not deserve to be in Australia let alone around the team. Root can bat at six but he did nothing to get up to number three?

    I think the consistent issue is the leadership, the selection policy obviously isn't based on form and just based on whose face fits Flower & Cooks world.

    My first selection would be to remove Cook as captain, I don't care about people saying "who replaces him". Cook is not a good leader. Oh he won in India, I would say that was down to very poor Indian batting against Monty & Swann with good support from Jimmy and the other quicks. Very few of the wickets were down to good captaincy, more bowled and LBWS that planning. We won the Ashes at home but had wickets that suited us but the reality is we have been going downhill in Test Cricket since the New Zealand away series, we have gone back to the olden days in ODI Cricket with Cook, Bell & Trott the top 3 in ODI Cricket nudging it around at snails pace.

    In the space of two years we have gone from this agressive, winning side who take no sh*t to a defensive, negative, frail team, batting at a snail pace which means the opposition is ALWAYS in the game, we never get away from them and put them under pressure.

    Who is the best captain in County Cricket? Collingwood won the Championship didn't he but he has been and gone. Who are the other English captains? Gale, Read, Troughton, Trescothick, Foster, Adams, Tredwell, Chappel, Peters, Mitchell?

    Do we do what South Africa did with Smith and say to a young lad - there's the captaincy, we trust in you and will support you for the next five years?

    I haven't got all the answers but the inconsistencies wind me up, this team is going nowhere except backwards and the players we are picking, selecting - doesn't make sense. For me something has to change and the leadership of the team has to be that.
    Very good post.

    The Compton situation hacked me right off at the time, why oh why he didn't get told after the NZ tour that his place was safe for the Ashes god only knows, he was put under unecassary pressure in the home matches, basically for me his face didn't fit, he got told to go away and score runs and he did! complete load of bollocks, similar goes for Taylor aswell, he should of been given a proper go that the likes or Morgan, Bopara, Bairstow etc were afforded, as you point out in this post its a closed shop and has been for sometime, if your face doesn't fit you are ****ed unless you are insanely talented like KP.

    I could go on, we had this coming to us, didn't think it would be this spectacular but it was always on the cards, Giles would be a complete was of time to, look at how we play the ODI game under him, everyone blasts 300s nowadays and we play defensive boring cricket for 40 overs and then scramble to get 270/280.

  9. #24
    State Captain theegyptian's Avatar
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    The problem is neither Compton or Carberry have shown they are better than Root. Their age does mean that they have to show that they arre better than Root who is 10 years younger. England have the time to develop Root's game. If you come into the test arena at 30 or 33 your game better be well developed because that is you game. Your not changing - or at least it isn't in England's interests to put loads of time into development if they are gonna quit or have diminshed performance due to waning sight, fitness in 3 or 4 years

    Root has the luxury of time. Compton and Carberry don't. They have to get it right first time because it's not worth England spending a year or two working on their game for Carberry to only be average. Root can work on his game, get dropped, and still come back in a few years with experience.
    Last edited by theegyptian; 30-12-2013 at 07:54 AM. Reason: that was to your point at xx.36 cooky.

  10. #25
    U19 12th Man Cooky Monster's Avatar
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    Oh and did i mention Bairstow and Root are both ****, cringeworthy how the likes of Vaughan and others bigged those 2 up to be something they are not, reminds of football, as soon as a young player shows a bit of promise/talent hes hyped beyond belief and people start talking all sorts unrealistic ****, look no further than Ross Barkley at Everton now, its ridiculous.

  11. #26
    U19 12th Man Cooky Monster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theegyptian View Post
    The problem is neither Compton or Carberry have shown they are better than Root. Their age does mean that they have to show that they arre better than Root who is 10 years younger. England have the time to develop Root's game. If you come into the test arena at 30 or 33 your game better be well developed because that is you game. Your not changing - or at least it isn't in England's interests to put loads of time into development if they are gonna quit or have diminshed performance due to waning sight, fitness in 3 or 4 years
    Compton showed more than enough for me, him and Cook laid the foundations very well in India, although Compton didn't get the big scores he looked good and done a sound job, 2 tons in NZ, yes he was poor at home but i think by then he knew his face didn't fit, also the tactics/coaching have to play a part, why did he clam up like that?, Carberry is doing the same now, Root does it aswell, its no coincidence, players are not being allowed to play their natural game, it ****s their heads up quite clearly, the coaching is utterly dire defensive minded crap.

    Let the players play their natural game, the coaching/management has strangled the life out of to many players now, look at Finn, what a joke that situation is.

  12. #27
    State Captain theegyptian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riggins View Post
    If he remembers how to hit the ball you could just play him at 6 as a batsman? Never going to average 50 but low-mid 40's and if he's a good captain it could be a good move.
    Whatever anybody said Prior was never good enough to bat 6 for England solely as a batsman. His game is too high variance(risky). Although his keeping has been trash in these last couple of series' before it had been decent.

    I think Prior would probably be a decent captain. And keeping and captaining I don't see as that big of a burden. It's not Alec Stewart type open the batting, keeping and captaincy.

    Clearly captaincy talk is a long way away now though as he ain't even in the team at present.

  13. #28
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    If we had an in-form Prior I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 6 and Stokes at 7, following the formula we used in the 2009 Ashes. Of course, it was disastrous when we used said formula in the game Flintoff didn't play. But given Prior's form, it'll never happen.

    I agree, btw, that he's best off at 7 anyway, but I think it's something they'd have done, or at least considered.
    Last edited by GIMH; 30-12-2013 at 08:15 AM.
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  14. #29
    International Coach grecian's Avatar
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    Pfft, I'm all for making changes, but the Captaincy (however inept it's been this series) needs to remain with him, as all other options are awful.

    KP and Broad, possibly on different sides of factions, who knows? Yet neither seem mature enough to do it, neither seems particularly selfless on their outlook on life. Prior not certain of his place. Jimmeh coming to the end of his career. Bell, let's face it the bloke clearly doesn't want to captain, he never has, or he'd have been in the mix before.

    So let's do what Australia have done with Clarke, and keep Cook, yet change things round about with the back-room staff (gooch has got to go surely, hopefully for Thorpe), and a bit with the Team. Give him players he's confident with might be a start.
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  15. #30
    International 12th Man Tangles's Avatar
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    Cook has no tactical sense as captain but maybe he could learn some of that. The other part of captaincy is man management. What evidence is there that he is any good at that? That's harder to learn.

    If Cooks your only option then sack Flower and hope it gets better...

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