*Official* Tour Matches

[andyc]

Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber

Yeah, Aussies didn't think he would do much but i knew he'd be the man to win us a game at some stage.

Yawn. Please stop grouping us all in together to suit your argument. Even a casual 'some' or 'many' would help. I know I personally was of the opinion that Swann probably wasn't going to be having much of a say in the first innings of games, but would prove the difference in bowling attacks when it came to 4th and 5th day pitches, and I daresay many others were as well.

[flibbertyjibber]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

How is Swann being the best spinner in the world over the top at all? I think he pretty comfortably is. The only semi-serious competition is Harbhajan, Mendis and Shakib (and I think he's left them for dead really) - it's not like people are saying he's better than Murali.

This.

We know he isn't in the same league as Murali or Warne in much the same way that Steyn is currently the number 1 paceman around and isn't as good as Donald, Ambrose, Pollock, McGrath etc from the 90's onwards, it doesn't mean he is being overhyped.

Swann is THE best spinner around at present, he would still be regarded as a very good one even if Muarli and Warne were still playing but no Englishman has ever said Swann is better than those two geniuses and any who did is either on drink or drugs.

[M0rphin3]

Originally Posted by Prince EWS

How is Swann being the best spinner in the world over the top at all? I think he pretty comfortably is. The only semi-serious competition is Harbhajan, Mendis and Shakib (and I think he's left them for dead really) - it's not like people are saying he's better than Murali.

If you're going by stats, his stats while damn good, are inflated by playing Pak & BD. Shakib can be equally vicious on assisting conditions, wouldn't you agree? So the margin isn't that huge as some people are making it out to be. No denying that he tops the list though.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by M0rphin3

Shakib has 12@29.25 with 2 back to back 5 wicket hauls in the 2 tests played vs SA. Shame that his team is crap and often neverr gets to bowl on a 5th day wicket. Gun innit. Swanneh though is gun, is being overhyped way too much it seems..

Man, look where Swann got his wickets against SA. Now look where Shakib got his wickets against SA.

[M0rphin3]

Originally Posted by Jono

Man, look where Swann got his wickets against SA. Now look where Shakib got his wickets against SA.

In Bloemfontein & Centurion IIRC? Why?

Swanneh in centurion 5/110 & 0/92, & Shakib 6/99 (lost by an innings)

[MW1304]

Originally Posted by M0rphin3

If you're going by stats, his stats while damn good, are inflated by playing Pak & BD. Shakib can be equally vicious on assisting conditions, wouldn't you agree? So the margin isn't that huge as some people are making it out to be. No denying that he tops the list though.

What, so Shakib's are inflated by playing New Zealand and West Indies?

They've played a similar amount of games and Swann comfortably has the better average. He has more 5 wicket hauls, more 10 wickets hauls blah blah blah..

A few games against Bangladesh, in which he didn't even play brilliantly, don't suddenly account for that and certainly don't make him a worse bowler. He has better attributes than Shakib anyway.

[M0rphin3]

Originally Posted by MW1304

What, so Shakib's are inflated by playing New Zealand and West Indies?

They've played a similar amount of games and Swann comfortably has the better average. He has more 5 wicket hauls, more 10 wickets hauls blah blah blah..

A few games against Bangladesh, in which he didn't even play brilliantly, don't suddenly account for that and certainly don't make him a worse bowler. He has better attributes than Shakib anyway.

Westindies yeah, NZ? Shakib got those wickets against a full strength NZ side like Swanneh did against a full strength WI side. No doubt that he's ahead of Shakib presently, but only marginally. And yeah, Shakib didn't even start as a genuine spinner, and had to play against tough opponents like India, SL etc and has 5 wicket hauls against all opponents he played.

[superkingdave]

Alex Keath looking like getting a game for Victoria? Wasn't he a good chance to get drafted if he hadn't chosen cricket?

[Howe_zat]

I rate Shakib highly but he only has so many 5w hauls because he is forced to bowl himself almost all day. He is the best bowler in his own team, and produced an outstanding performance in SA. He also took apart a terrible WI side, but this only amounts to four matches.

In the rest of his matches, including all his matches at home, Shakib averages 38.

Swann has produced consistently good to excellent performances around the world and his averages largely reflect the quality of the batting against him. Take out his four best matches against Pakistan, and he still averages 30.5, which in the modern game is still very good.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Howe_zat

I rate Shakib highly but he only has so many 5w hauls because he is forced to bowl himself almost all day.

Haha. This is the new Warne v Murali.

[vcs]

I haven't observed Shakib closely before, but I caught a bit of him bowling against Zimbabwe a couple of days back and his action looked very roundarm-ish to me. That's not a good thing for an off-spinner, is it?

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by vcs

I haven't observed Shakib closely before, but I caught a bit of him bowling against Zimbabwe a couple of days back and his action looked very roundarm-ish to me. That's not a good thing for an off-spinner, is it?

Yeah, he's admitted that's one of the things he's working on. It used to be a lot worse than it is now - he's worked very hard on getting that arm higher - but it gets a bit low when he's tired or out of form.

[morgieb]

Originally Posted by superkingdave

Alex Keath looking like getting a game for Victoria? Wasn't he a good chance to get drafted if he hadn't chosen cricket?

He actually had a contract with the Suns, lol. Keath's doing pretty good iirc, it's not like picking cricket over AFL is unprecedented (read Mitch Marsh, Jamie Cox).

[M0rphin3]

Originally Posted by Howe_zat

I rate Shakib highly but he only has so many 5w hauls because he is forced to bowl himself almost all day. He is the best bowler in his own team, and produced an outstanding performance in SA. He also took apart a terrible WI side, but this only amounts to four matches.

In the rest of his matches, including all his matches at home, Shakib averages 38.

Swann has produced consistently good to excellent performances around the world and his averages largely reflect the quality of the batting against him. Take out his four best matches against Pakistan, and he still averages 30.5, which in the modern game is still very good.

Tbf, he wasn't a full time spinner to begin with when he started the career, he used to bowl part time while Rafique, Razzak led their spin attack. It's only afterwards he started to play as a specialist spinner, and since then he's performed quite well imo.

Wow, and it's a extremely unfair to him to say that he got those 5 wicket hauls just coz he bowled all day. Swann's bowled 50, 49, 45 and 41 overs in 4 of his wicket hauls while Shakib's worst came from 38 overs. And he has no quality bowlers to back him, be it spinners or seamers to maintain the pressure at the other end. And Shakib had to bowl against SL, India, SA, Eng, and those are all top class teams. Except India, he's played all of them away and at home.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by M0rphin3

In Bloemfontein & Centurion IIRC? Why?

Swanneh in centurion 5/110 & 0/92, & Shakib 6/99 (lost by an innings)

Lol, massive fail from myself.

Completely forgot Bangladesh played SA in SA.