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[TumTum]

Originally Posted by Jono

He's had favourable conditions and also just about the worst conditions a spinner can bowl in.

Which evens itself out. Talk about averages

[vcs]

Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber

Agree with that Jono, says a lot about him that he got a 5 for in his 2nd test down under when Murali never got one. I know the batting was better in Murali's day but still a decent performance by Swanny.

Much better. Also, their opening batsmen ensured there was much more pressure on the bowling side when Murali or other spinners in the past had to come in.

Saying that, Swann is a class act and no matter what he averages overall, he's doing his job by rolling the Aussies over when the conditions are in his favour.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by TumTum

Which evens itself out. Talk about averages

Nah, Australia's first innings in Adelaide was on a flat track.

Swann has only had one innings where the pitch was favourable to spin bowling.

[vic_orthdox]

Yeah, I think Swann is doing his job really well.

When your own batting gets you a big score, and there's not a huge amount of pressure to bowl in a certain manner and strike at certain times, it shows the benefits. When Swann gets the ball, he knows that he'll be given all day to bowl and work his way into a spell, no matter what happens; was a bit different in the first innings Australia played, where there was more pressure due to England's disappointing score.

It's something that Australian spinners haven't been given since Warne, they are seen as a way of filling in between spells from the pace bowlers. This is compounded by the fact that they don't have records in FC cricket that demand selection, so the need to "nurture" them into action is created. For nuture, replace with "hide" where you see fit.

[TumTum]

Originally Posted by Jono

Nah, Australia's first innings in Adelaide was on a flat track.

Swann has only had one innings where the pitch was favourable to spin bowling.

Usually the 1st innings never favors the spinners in any ground. So spinners have never gotten an equal share of the pie.

[flibbertyjibber]

Originally Posted by Jono

Nah, Australia's first innings in Adelaide was on a flat track.

Swann has only had one innings where the pitch was favourable to spin bowling.

It was and he managed to keep it very tight despite Hussey and Haddin batting well. To be honest his 1st innings performance on the road was just as impressive as the 5 for on the bunsen burner on days 4 and 5.

[M0rphin3]

Originally Posted by Jono

The guy won tests in South Africa, now Australia.

He's a gun. Possibly the best bowler in the world, and easily the best spinner in the world. Time people just accept it.

Statistically yes. But majority of his wickets were against Pak & BD IIRC. So not by a huge margin imo. Gun offie though.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by TumTum

Usually the 1st innings never favors the spinners in any ground. So spinners have never gotten an equal share of the pie.

These pitches at times have been some of the flattest I've ever seen in Australia.

Gabba had some green on day 1 along with cloud cover to aid the quicks, and Adelaide began to turn sharply on days 4 and 5.

In between that its been flatter than many pitches.

Either way, a spinner's job is to take wickets when conditions are favourable. Especially overseas sp[inners in Australia and South Africa.

Swann has ticked both of that off.

[flibbertyjibber]

Originally Posted by M0rphin3

Statistically yes. But majority of his wickets were against Pak & BD IIRC. So not by a huge margin imo. Gun offie though.

v Australia 7 matches 23 wkts @ 38.65
v Bangladesh 4 matches 22 wkts @ 27.9
v India 2 matches 8 wkts @ 39.5 (debut series away)
v Pakistan 4 matches 22 wkts @ 12.22
v S.A. 4 matches 21 wkts @ 31.38
v West Indies 5 matches 26 wkts @ 22.15

A good record against nearly all the nations he has played against and his poor record v Australia isn't that bad when you consider in the 3 matches England have won he has played a huge role in each of them in the last innings. Doing it when conditions suit is a huge bonus, many spinners freeze when conditions suit and bowl badly. Swanny hasn't yet.

[Howe_zat]

Originally Posted by M0rphin3

Statistically yes. But majority of his wickets were against Pak & BD IIRC. So not by a huge margin imo. Gun offie though.

He's taken 22 vs Pakistan and Bangladesh, 23 vs Australia, 21 vs SA and 26 vs WI. Pretty consistent.

Over the last year, Swanny has been the best spinner in the world by a nearly embarrassing margin.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

[Jono]

Record against South Africa is

[M0rphin3]

Originally Posted by Howe_zat

He's taken 22 vs Pakistan and Bangladesh, 23 vs Australia, 21 vs SA and 26 vs WI. Pretty consistent.

Over the last year, Swanny has been the best spinner in the world by a nearly embarrassing margin.

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

In all of them except BD, WI, & Pak are 30+ averages IIRC?

[M0rphin3]

Originally Posted by Jono

Record against South Africa is

Shakib has 12@29.25 with 2 back to back 5 wicket hauls in the 2 tests played vs SA. Shame that his team is crap and often neverr gets to bowl on a 5th day wicket. Gun innit. Swanneh though is gun, is being overhyped way too much it seems..

[M0rphin3]

Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber

v Australia 7 matches 23 wkts @ 38.65
v Bangladesh 4 matches 22 wkts @ 27.9
v India 2 matches 8 wkts @ 39.5 (debut series away)
v Pakistan 4 matches 22 wkts @ 12.22
v S.A. 4 matches 21 wkts @ 31.38
v West Indies 5 matches 26 wkts @ 22.15

A good record against nearly all the nations he has played against and his poor record v Australia isn't that bad when you consider in the 3 matches England have won he has played a huge role in each of them in the last innings. Doing it when conditions suit is a huge bonus, many spinners freeze when conditions suit and bowl badly. Swanny hasn't yet.

Well, if your point is to prove that he's a good spinner, nvm, I've already admitted that. But Swanneh being the best spinner in world and all that is a tad OTT. That's all.

[Prince EWS]

How is Swann being the best spinner in the world over the top at all? I think he pretty comfortably is. The only semi-serious competition is Harbhajan, Mendis and Shakib (and I think he's left them for dead really) - it's not like people are saying he's better than Murali.