World Cup 2010

[NUFAN]

Haha, who do you think would qualify if it were SA, Slovakia, NZ and Egypt?

Can't wait until the draw is announced, shame that Aus and NZ will most likely be from the same pot.

Agree with your yarp call, Netherlands in pot 2 is the team everyone will be looking to avoid!

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Looking at the pots on the site Sam links to, the yarps being a top seed really skews the draw. Based on this:

Pot 1 (seeded teams): Argentina, Brazil, England, France, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Spain
Pot 2 (rest of UEFA): Denmark, Greece, Netherlands, Portugal, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Switzerland
Pot 3 (AFC + OFC + CONCACAF): Australia, Honduras, Japan, Korea DPR, Korea Republic, Mexico, New Zealand, USA
Pot 4 (CAF + rest of CONMEBOL): Cameroon, Chile, Côte d'Ivoire, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Paraguay, Uruguay

We could end up with a creamy group like:

SA, Slovakia, New Zealand, Egypt

Or, in time honoured tradition, a Group of Death:

Spain, Netherlands, Mexico, Paraguay

Would blame the geographic seeding tbh. Consider SA not being seeded. Then they'd have to put the following sides into georagphi pots:

7 European
6 African
4 Asian
3 CONMEBOL
3 CONCACAF
1 Oceanian

Now, this is tricky, but I'd suggest

Seeds: Argentina, Brazil, England, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain
Africa + CONMEBOL (9): Cameroon, Chile, Côte d'Ivoire, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Paraguay, South Africa, Uruguay - with two teams in the same group
Asia + Oceania + CONCACAF (8): Australia, Honduras, Japan, Korea DPR, Korea Republic, Mexico, New Zealand, USA
Europe (7): Denmark, Greece, Netherlands, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Switzerland

Thus, one can get

Portugal, Egypt, New Zealand, South Africa

and

Spain, Ivory Coast, Australia, Netherlands

I suppose the "weakest possible" group still has one quite decent side, and is likely to get a second thanks to Yurp (but could still luck into Denmark, Slovakia or Ukraine/Greece), but with geographic seeding you're always going to have fairly likely groups of death.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Haha, who do you think would qualify if it were SA, Slovakia, NZ and Egypt?

Hard to say, don't pretend to know much about any of the teams who aren't NZ, aside from their players who've graced the Prem. Slovakia and Egypt would be the favs to advance, I'd guess, although wouldn't rule any of them out.

Although there may be a safeguard in place to make sure two African teams can't end up in the same group, so we might not see that particular group.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Would blame the geographic seeding tbh. Consider SA not being seeded. Then they'd have to put the following sides into georagphi pots:

7 European
6 African
4 Asian
3 CONMEBOL
3 CONCACAF
1 Oceanian

Now, this is tricky, but I'd suggest

Seeds: Argentina, Brazil, England, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain
Africa + CONMEBOL (9): Cameroon, Chile, Côte d'Ivoire, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Paraguay, South Africa, Uruguay - with two teams in the same group
Asia + Oceania + CONCACAF (8): Australia, Honduras, Japan, Korea DPR, Korea Republic, Mexico, New Zealand, USA
Europe (7): Denmark, Greece, Netherlands, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Switzerland

Thus, one can get

Portugal, Egypt, New Zealand, South Africa

and

Spain, Ivory Coast, Australia, Netherlands

I suppose the "weakest possible" group still has one quite decent side, and is likely to get a second thanks to Yurp (but could still luck into Denmark, Slovakia or Ukraine/Greece), but with geographic seeding you're always going to have fairly likely groups of death.

Is it a new development? Relatively speaking, I mean. Pretty sure there was a geographical split for the 2002 draw (hence us being lumbered with Argentina, Sweden and Nigeria) but can't remember about 1998.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Is it a new development? Relatively speaking, I mean. Pretty sure there was a geographical split for the 2002 draw (hence us being lumbered with Argentina, Sweden and Nigeria) but can't remember about 1998.

Don't know, really. FIFA say 2006, but from looking at the groups, teams have been kept apart as much as possible since 1990 (in 86 there was 3 groups with 3 Europeans and 1 group with 1 European).

It would be better to seed all pots, and then, once the pots are known, ensure that only one team (two from Europe) go to the same groups. A bit like UEFA do for the Champions League when teams from the same nation can't play on the same dates. That avoids the potential of drawing strong teams from Europe together with strong teams from the rest of the world.

Mind, the host being seeded will always throw up trouble and isn't really needed for football any more. The matches will sell out regardless.

 

[Uppercut]

Looking at the pots on the site Sam links to, the yarps being a top seed really skews the draw. Based on this:

Pot 1 (seeded teams): Argentina, Brazil, England, France, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Spain
Pot 2 (rest of UEFA): Denmark, Greece, Netherlands, Portugal, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Switzerland
Pot 3 (AFC + OFC + CONCACAF): Australia, Honduras, Japan, Korea DPR, Korea Republic, Mexico, New Zealand, USA
Pot 4 (CAF + rest of CONMEBOL): Cameroon, Chile, Côte d'Ivoire, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Paraguay, Uruguay

We could end up with a creamy group like:

SA, Slovakia, New Zealand, Egypt

Or, in time honoured tradition, a Group of Death:

Spain, Netherlands, Mexico, Paraguay

What a disgustingly undeathly group of death. It's nothing compared to last time's Netherlands, Argentina, Ivory Coast, Serbia & Montenegro or the time before's England, Argentina, Sweden, Nigeria.

Mexico have got a serious bum deal, but I suppose that's the counter-check to them having it so ****ing easy in qualifying. The G.O.D. will pretty much be whichever group they're in.

 

[aussie]

Hmm i guess England could technically get a group of death if its something like:

England, Netherlands/Portugal/Russia, Mexico & Ivory Coast/Ghana. Need to start fasting & praying..

 

[ripper868]

At all possible Australia could be in the same group as New Zealand? would love that tbh.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I'm pretty sure it's possible. Japan (best in Asia at the time) were drawn in our (best in Oceania at the time) group at 2006.

 

[biased indian]

At all possible Australia could be in the same group as New Zealand? would love that tbh.

I'm pretty sure it's possible. Japan (best in Asia at the time) were drawn in our (best in Oceania at the time) group at 2006.

they are in the same pot rite... so they will never end up in same group

 

[ripper868]

I'm pretty sure it's possible. Japan (best in Asia at the time) were drawn in our (best in Oceania at the time) group at 2006.

Just thought about it, I think that was possible as Oceania played off with South America in 2006, whereas this time Oceania played off against Asia.

Anyone give an explanation about the pts and how the finals groups are determined? or direct me to a post if it already has been explained.

 

[NUFAN]

Mexico have got a serious bum deal, but I suppose that's the counter-check to them having it so ****ing easy in qualifying. The G.O.D. will pretty much be whichever group they're in.

How'd you work that out? Even if they get a good team from pot A, they could get average teams in Group B and D.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Just thought about it, I think that was possible as Oceania played off with South America in 2006, whereas this time Oceania played off against Asia.

Anyone give an explanation about the pts and how the finals groups are determined? or direct me to a post if it already has been explained.

The host and 7 best teams (based on a formula adding past World Cup performance to recent FIFA rankings) are seeded.
The remaining 24 teams are then divided into three pots by geographical location. FIFA usually put 8 teams in each pot. There are a number of ways of doing that this year: the rest of UEFA has 8 teams, so that's easy, but the other confederations:

Asia 4 (Oz, North Korea, South Korea, Japan)
Oceania 1 (New Zealand)
Africa 5 (Cameroon, Egypt/Algeria, Ghana, Nigeria, Ivory Coast)
South America 3 (Chile, Paraguay, Uruguay)
Central, North and Caribbean 3 (US, Mexico, Honduras)

As you can see, there are two ways of pairing these to make 8 in each pot:

Asia + Oceania + CONCACAF; Africa + South America
Asia + Oceania + South America; Africa + CONCACAF

How they choose between these two is up for debate, but I'd suggest that they pair Asia with Oceania and CONCACAF - either one is defensible by FIFA rankings, though. In either case, the Oz/NZ clash is impossible.

This is all assuming that Costa Rica don't score 2 goals in Montevideo, which I think is a safe assumption.

 

[Uppercut]

How'd you work that out? Even if they get a good team from pot A, they could get average teams in Group B and D.

Look at the teams they have to avoid though. No one you wouldn't want to play there.

Mildly disappointing that North and South Korea can't be drawn to play each other.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Any shocks in the offing tonight?

Suppose Greece & Russia are the two seeds most at risk by the way the results went in the first legs, although The Ukraine advancing at the expense of the former not really that huge a shock anyway, IMHO.

Early goal for the Irish in Paris would make things interesting, but can't quite see them pulling it off.

Egypt/Algeria supposed to be a powder keg waiting for a spark from what I've read. The Algerian team bus was allegedly attacked by brick-weilding Egyptian fans, leaving three players bruised and bloodied. The Egyptians have denied this tho, obviously.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Bosnia are so good going forward and Portugal suck hard going forward, I'd almost bet that Bosnia will go through. They should have taken a point from the last one, Dzeko hit the bar twice and Misimovic hit the post as well.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Bosnia are so good going forward and Portugal suck hard going forward, I'd almost bet that Bosnia will go through. They should have taken a point from the last one, Dzeko hit the bar twice and Misimovic hit the post as well.

Would love to see it. Worry for them with the lack of an away goal tho; assuming the away goals rule is in operation tonight, of course.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

assuming the away goals rule is in operation tonight, of course.

It is. 2-1 Bosnia sounds depressingly likely.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

**** Portugal. They play disgustingly rubbish football with or without Fagtron 3000 and Bosnia are superb to watch with some amazing young talent. Win-Win if Bosnia go through.

 

[Scaly piscine]

The Egypt v Algeria game is allegedly live on FIFA's website but it isn't working for me.

Egypt leading 1-0 in the second half, also a huge away goal for Greece in Ukraine.