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Post Mortem: India

jeevan

International 12th Man
Rather have Sehwag at #2, he's a decent part time bowler and Uthappa is as unreliable, seems like. Entirely someone else will be good, perhaps promote Karthik.

Zaheer is quite OK, for #9. Sreesanth worth a shot for #11.


I obviously want fit players in the team. But there is no choice but to go for powar in the spin department. Who else is there?

Sehwag should be sent home and cannot be considered until he sheds some love handles.

For now the team can look like this:

1. Ganguly
2. Uthappa - final chance
3. Dravid
4. Yuvraj
5. Dhoni
6. Karthik
7.
8. Powar
9.
10. Munaf Patel
11.

7, 9, 11 are up for grabs. 2 is shaky and may very well soon be.

Need Badani and Mongia as standby - one of them can be 7 for now. But then can move up if anyone fails.
 

Dasa

International Vice-Captain
Why all the calls for Tendulkar to go? I can understand the point in Test matches (although I don't agree with it), but in ODIs, there's no reason at all for him to be dropped.
 

straightbat

Cricket Spectator
Where is Pathan? I know he has being out of form of late but he is one off the best young cricketers going around.

As for the indian team attitude only those in the inner sactum knows what really goes on, but from an outsiders point of view they are not good enough in the basics of the game,ie,ground fielding, catching, running between wickets,building partnerships.

These basics must be practised constantly at a high level to become second nature.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
for ODI ...

Drop Tendulkar, Agarkar, Bhajji, Uttappa, Kumble

Farewell gift of chappal-ki-maala for Mr. Chappel

Demote Dravid to team member

Promote Ganguly to captain

Promote Yuvi to VC (grooming to be captain within 1-2 yrs)

Send Sehwag to county cricket or Aus/RSA domestic cricket to lose some flab and learn how to be more consistent

Bring Yuvi up the batting order (3 or 4, with Dravid also at 3 or 4)

Find some talented all-rounders from U19 teams and give them personal coaching .. BCCI should invest the crores into that .. instead of filling coffers/overpaying the underperformers

Invest in fitness/strenght training for Zaheer and Munaf and other promising pace-bowlers to add a yard of pace and encourage them to bowl as fast as they can versus becoming line-length bowlers .. useless in Int'l cricket (even Sri Lanka has 3 faster bowlers than we do)

Shut down MRF Pace academy .. biggest waste

what else? post your ideas here
Corrected.
 

apuraja

Cricket Spectator
Does anyone know what is going on with the U19 team? I really think we should focus on long-term ... I say pluck a few talented teenagers and invest in them ... seems to me the general belief is that BCCI is rolling in money ... so why not spend money on young talent .. on thier training, fitness, and personalized coaching ...

if they can set up a BCCI-sponsored training program for 10-20 youngsters from the U19 group and other youngsters within domestic cricket .. over the span of 2/3 years we may be able to come up with some real solid international quality players ...

Does India have such an academy like the one in AUS?
 

Hamilton B

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
A few potential replacements to consider:

Kumble - Piyush Chawla. Might as well rest Kumble for a while and give the guy the Bangladesh series to settle into a groove. He apparently can bat a bit too.

Sehwag - Rohit Sharma. The guy did well in Australia recently too, and seems a good prospect. Sehwag needs to put in time in domestic cricket. Serious time, not just token time like before the World Cup. County cricket would be ideal, but which county would take him ? :p

Tendulkar - Rest Tendulkar for the Bangladesh series and try out Badrinath.

Pathan - Joginder Sharma. Pathan needs serious time out, much like Sehwag. Sharma should be given an extended run in the side.

Ganguly - Gambhir. Ganguly should stay in the test side, but will most probably be phased out of the ODI side in favour of Gambhir in due course.

Dhoni - Karthik. Most probably won't happen, but Dhoni is yet to convince me he more than a flat track bully. The tour to England will be make or break for Dhoni, one feels.

Harbhajan - Powar. On pure ODI bowling performances, Powar should be given the nod ahead of the stagnating Harbhajan for the One dayers.
 

Dissector

International Debutant
Like with Kaif, the Karthik mania defies all reason. Guys, Karthik averages less than 20 in ODI's with a strike rate of under 60. He has had 9 innings (1 not out) which counts as a reasonable trial period. Talk about him replacing Tendulkar or Dhoni is pure absurdity.

Over the last 18 months Tendulkar averages around 40 with the bat and has produced several solid performances with the ball in recent months. What on earth would justify dropping him for Karthik or Kaif?
 

Hamilton B

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Like with Kaif, the Karthik mania defies all reason. Guys, Karthik averages less than 20 in ODI's with a strike rate of under 60. He has had 9 innings (1 not out) which counts as a reasonable trial period. Talk about him replacing Tendulkar or Dhoni is pure absurdity.

Over the last 18 months Tendulkar averages around 40 with the bat and has produced several solid performances with the ball in recent months. What on earth would justify dropping him for Karthik or Kaif?
The difference is that Karthik has actually displayed a propensity for scoring useful runs outside the subcontinent, Dhoni hasn't.
 

Dissector

International Debutant
Dhoni had a decent tour of SA averaging 35 in some fairly low scoring games. That is a whole lot more than Karthik has ever achieved.

I think 9 innings is a decent trial period considering that there are better batsmen competing for places. He has also been given 11 tests and averages 25. His first class average is under 30. Really there is no evidence at all that he is a world-class batsman.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Dhoni had a decent tour of SA averaging 35 in some fairly low scoring games. That is a whole lot more than Karthik has ever achieved.

I think 9 innings is a decent trial period considering that there are better batsmen competing for places. He has also been given 11 tests and averages 25. His first class average is under 30. Really there is no evidence at all that he is a world-class batsman.
Have you even watched him bat? The stats don't tell even half the story.
 

Dissector

International Debutant
I have watched him bat a bit; can't say I was terribly impressed. He is nowhere near the quality of Dhoni as a striker of the ball. And ultimately what matters is performance and stats help us measure that.

Can anyone explain why someone who doesn't average above 30 in any form of the game including domestic cricket is considered a world-class batsman?
 

adharcric

International Coach
I have watched him bat a bit; can't say I was terribly impressed. He is nowhere near the quality of Dhoni as a striker of the ball. And ultimately what matters is performance and stats help us measure that.

Can anyone explain why someone who doesn't average above 30 in any form of the game including domestic cricket is considered a world-class batsman?
Given an adequate knowledge of the game, you can judge someone's technique and temperament rather than merely looking at his stats. Fair enough, his domestic record is not very impressive. From what I've seen, he can still be a valuable batsman. He's definitely a top-notch keeper, no doubt. By the way, no one called him world-class.
 
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Evermind

International Debutant
It's really quite simple. As someone said, a fitness regimen for SPORTSMEN is essential. For crap's sake: how can you do "sports" when you're physically unfit? Isn't that the most essential pre-requisite when we talk about stuff like running between the wickets, batting stamina, fielding capacity?

Indian cricket needs a major overhaul, and it should be based around fitness training. The coaches just aren't powerful enough because the players are too powerful: they dictate terms to the coach: I wouldn't be surprised if Greg Chappell had asked some "stars" to lose weight and gotten "get lost" in reply. We already know that Inzamam was more powerful than Woolmer: who would (rightfully) want to touch the coaching positions of these countries with a ten-foot-pole now?

- Tendulkar should not be dropped because even at his 40% he is better than most players at the peak of their power. His recent performances in ODI pretty much prove that. "Drop Tendulkar" is a typically severe emotional reaction from Indian fans.

- Dravid is a great player but not a great captain. He is too soft. He does not have a commanding presence on the field, and his body language and speech look like they can be very defeatist and resigned. But he should definitely be a part of the team.

- Ganguly is still a good short-term prospect.

- Sehwag needs 2 years in the counties. Indian should beg a county to accept him. If not, he needs to spend 2 years in the mountains will the Gurkhas if he still wants to play for India.

- Dhoni is a flat-track bully who should be batting no higher than 7 or so. In terms of ability, he's no better than Flintoff - and everyone knows Flintoff is a genuine #7.

- Harbhajan has never been a wicket-taker and Kumble is way past his expiration date. The latter has retired, but the former either needs to drastically improve or give way to someone else. In fact, I'd not use a specialist spinner at all. Yuvraj and Tendulkar and Ganguly etc can be the 5th option. But yeah, no Harbhajan please.

- Sreesanth and Uthappa are exciting new options - they're raw but talented, and not a part of the old team. Uthappa is not unfit, and he can field well. In team of lead-footed disnosaurs, how valuable is that? He needs to be trained, and I have no doubt that he could start performing consistently. It's all in the mind. Same with Pathan.

- Z Khan and Munaf need to work on fitness, but they're gonna be the speaheads in the bowling attack, one feels. They need to work on handling pressure, or they're gonna wilt as well.

- The fact that A Agarkar is still in the team is a severe indictment of the selection committee's methods and favouritism. The guy would not be in the reserve list for any of the top 8.

- Powar is not an option until he stops being such a liability in the field. He cannot throw, and he doesn't dive. India are already the laughing stock of world cricket right now - imagine if this guy walks into the team. Unless he drops about 15 kg, he shouldn't be anyway near the team. India need to groom a real world-class spinner: Kumble, Harb and Powar are not.

So drop:

Kumble
Harbhajan
Agarkar
Sehwag
Dravid as captain
Ganguly (after a year or two)
Powar

The main problem is lack of motivation and all the money pouring into the players' pockets. Unfortunately, due to the mentality of the Indian people and the system in place, the lack of performance is bound to persist.

Could a team with Raina, Gambhir, Pathan, Uthappa, Karthik, Dhoni, Sreesanth have done worse in the world cup? I doubt it.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Top post. :thumbsup:

Regarding the spinner, Harbhajan and Powar are good enough in one-day cricket. Despite his stocky frame, Powar is not too much of a liability in the field. Bhajji is still a good ODI spinner; he just blew it in the past few matches. Powar > Bhajji at the moment though. Chawla should hopefully be ready by the end of 2008. Jadeja and Nadeem are next.
 

masterblaster

International Captain
In terms of the spinner role in this Indian side, Piyush Chawla is young and has a promising future ahead of him and could easily make the side for the Bangladesh tour. Also, what ever happened to Amit Mishra? A couple of years ago, he was being touted as a replacement for Anil Kumble.
 

shankar

International Debutant
Dhoni is a flat-track bully who should be batting no higher than 7 or so. In terms of ability, he's no better than Flintoff - and everyone knows Flintoff is a genuine #7.
Which matches in the recent past have given you this impression? It's obvious from his playing style that he's likely to struggle against the moving ball, but i can't remember instances in the recent past of him failing because of that.

I actually think he should be promoted to the upper middle order now. I think he's overrated as a big-hitter (In that if you bowl in certain areas you can keep him quiet) and can be of more use batting up the order with his adaptability.
 

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