Would you have both Warne and O'Reilly in your ATG XI?

[capt_Luffy]

Yes. Here is my new ATG XI:

Hayden
Trumper
Bradman
Smith
Chapell
Miller
Gilly
Warne
OReilly
Lillee
McGrath

Same but Border for Chappell and Lindwall for Lillee

 

[the big bambino]

And he hardly ever did so in Tests. Pitches in Shield were notoriously easy for batting. Davidson averages 37 on them, Tallon 29. 17 average in Tests for a wk counts as a mug with the bat imho.

Is this an actual point or just a false analogy? He averaged less than Miller too ... and many others. Doesn't mean he couldn't bat. He topped his state's average in one year at least.

The reasons previously given explain his low test average. Wisden said as much in his obituary. When you bat 8 or lower in tests because you're in one of the strongest test sides your country has fielded, you're not going to have opportunities to show your batting skills.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Is this an actual point or just a false analogy? He averaged less than Miller too ... and many others. Doesn't mean he couldn't bat. He topped his state's average in one year at least.

The reasons previously given explain his low test average. Wisden said as much in his obituary. When you bat 8 or lower in tests because you're in one of the strongest test sides your country has fielded, you're not going to have opportunities to show your batting skills.

Then you will also not be averaging 17 really. Mid 20s, fine. Batting at 8 behind a strong team also means protection from the top, more tired bowlers and potential for **** tons of not outs. He did exactly nothing of that sort

 

[the big bambino]

Then you will also not be averaging 17 really. Mid 20s, fine. Batting at 8 behind a strong team also means protection from the top, more tired bowlers and potential for **** tons of not outs. He did exactly nothing of that sort

Meaningless comment. Who knows what the bowlers will be feeling? Perhaps amped they have a shot at some wickets. Neither are not outs going to help much. If he averaged 17 in a side when he was selected for his batting you'd have a point. He wasn't - so you don't.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Meaningless comment. Who knows what the bowlers will be feeling? Perhaps amped they have a shot at some wickets. Neither are not outs going to help much. If he averaged 17 in a side when he was selected for his batting you'd have a point. He wasn't - so you don't.

It's objectively easier to bat at 8 in a strong batting side than the other way around. He averages 17 in a side where he batted for. If his batting was not even worth a dime to them, then your point of him not being a mug with the bat falls moot. By definition, that means being a mug batsman, whose batting isn't even considered in their selection.

 

[shortpitched713]

If three pacers wont get the job done the fourth will not.

4 and even 5 man pace attacks have existed.

Imran and Miller are so much stronger than your average 3rd and 4th seamer, to say they couldn't provide something extra in at least some of the moments they were called upon seems dismissive.

Obviously a 6 man attack though is going to have the last spinner/seamer feel rather redundant at times, I do cede that. But simply the exercise was to maximize available bowling resources in an XI, while retaining a tenable batting lineup, which I think I did.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's objectively easier to bat at 8 in a strong batting side than the other way around.

I don't think this is true when it comes to purely looking at average. In a weaker side you also get more opportunities to have a proper bat, even of the opposition tends to have their tail up at least you can build an innings to the best of your abilities. In a stronger side you're more often coming in with declaration on the cards or not a game deciding situation and you're more likely to throw your wicket away.

Having said that I still think you're absolutely right about Don Tallin's batting. You can't explain away an average of 17. He might have been a handy state bat for Queensland but pretending that he was a quality Test batsman despite an average of 17 is trying to rewrite history

 

[TheJediBrah]

4 and even 5 man pace attacks have existed.

Imran and Miller are so much stronger than your average 3rd and 4th seamer, to say they couldn't provide something extra in at least some of the moments they were called upon seems dismissive.

Obviously a 6 man attack though is going to have the last spinner/seamer feel rather redundant at times, I do cede that. But simply the exercise was to maximize available bowling resources in an XI, while retaining a tenable batting lineup, which I think I did.

The only way a 6 man attack would be reasonable is if 2 of them are Kallis and Sobers, basically there for their batting and you have 4 ATG bowlers to go with them.

 

[subshakerz]

Same but Border for Chappell and Lindwall for Lillee

Don't see a case for either frankly but to each their own

 

[the big bambino]

It's objectively easier to bat at 8 in a strong batting side than the other way around. He averages 17 in a side where he batted for. If his batting was not even worth a dime to them, then your point of him not being a mug with the bat falls moot. By definition, that means being a mug batsman, whose batting isn't even considered in their selection.

Ok thanks. This is completely circuitous. I wonder why cricket fans seem to think it's a cool to bash a point to death? Wisden knew he could bat. His team mates knew he could bat. His fc ave was just under 30. He scored 9 centuries. But against that we have ... you. He could bat but his test record is disappointing. The 2 aren't exclusive. Go stalk someone else.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I don't think this is true when it comes to purely looking at average. In a weaker side you also get more opportunities to have a proper bat, even of the opposition tends to have their tail up at least you can build an innings to the best of your abilities. In a stronger side you're more often coming in with declaration on the cards or not a game deciding situation and you're more likely to throw your wicket away.

Having said that I still think you're absolutely right about Don Tallin's batting. You can't explain away an average of 17. He might have been a handy state bat for Queensland but pretending that he was a quality Test batsman despite an average of 17 is trying to rewrite history

Fair, but if to choose, I am certain most lower order batsmen will prefer to bat in a stronger side. Less chances to show your skills off and throwing away wicket is a possibility, but imo tired bowlers and chances of red inks compensates for that.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ok thanks. This is completely circuitous. I wonder why cricket fans seem to think it's a cool to bash a point to death? Wisden knew he could bat. His team mates knew he could bat. His fc ave was just under 30. He scored 9 centuries. But against that we have ... you. He could bat but his test record is disappointing. The 2 aren't exclusive. Go stalk someone else.

Bro...... Tallon played 21 Test matches. He always batted at 8 or later. He played domestically in Sheffield Shield, notorious for scoring soft runs. You could say he can bat in FC, but was a mug at the Test level. If you can't handle basic criticism, I mean then why are you even discussing them??

 

[Red]

I'm thinking this XI for Australia:

Smith
Boon
Bradman
Ponting
G Chappell
Miller
Gilchrist
Davidson
Lindwall
Warne
McGrath

Australia has had many atvg but not necessarily great openers. Whereas Smith is an ATG and opens because this team has only 3 middle order players. Even though his stint as an opener was unsuccessful I think he could score runs in the spot at the top of his game. I like Boon because he had the Bruce Laird toughness against pace but has far more class. This side has 3 No. 3s at 3, 4 and 5. I'd consider swapping out Chappell for Border who I think would be more versatile in the batting order. Gilchrist is unchallenged and Miller is the 3rd player picked. Prefer Lindwall over Lillee because he can bat. Davidson's record is fantastic and his fielding and batting press his claims even further. I think Tiger is superior to Warne as a bowler but the difference doesn't matter. Warne is the better batsman and easily superior slip fielder. McGrath is Australia's best ever bowler.

I have no real issue with this selecting non openers who were better bats than the available openers, but I reckon either Ponting or Chappell would go better than Smith at the top, allowing Smith to slide into the middle order

 

[Red]

Bro...... Tallon played 21 Test matches. He always batted at 8 or later. He played domestically in Sheffield Shield, notorious for scoring soft runs. You could say he can bat in FC, but was a mug at the Test level. If you can't handle basic criticism, I mean then why are you even discussing them??

It’d benefit you to do some actual reading about the era Tallon played in, the team he played in, the match positions he batted in…

 

[capt_Luffy]

Don't see a case for either frankly but to each their own

Border for being a better batsman than Greg, Lindwall for being an equal bowler and much better batsman than Lillee.

 

[subshakerz]

Ok thanks. This is completely circuitous. I wonder why cricket fans seem to think it's a cool to bash a point to death? Wisden knew he could bat. His team mates knew he could bat. His fc ave was just under 30. He scored 9 centuries. But against that we have ... you. He could bat but his test record is disappointing. The 2 aren't exclusive. Go stalk someone else.

Having Warne as 8th batting position is a slight weakness try can afford with Bradman and Gilly.

 

[the big bambino]

I have no real issue with this selecting non openers who were better bats than the available openers, but I reckon either Ponting or Chappell would go better than Smith at the top, allowing Smith to slide into the middle order

I'd go with that because the side has 3 no.3s in positions 3-5. If Ponting opened you could have either Smith or Chappell in their favoured spot at 4.

It’d benefit you to do some actual reading about the era Tallon played in, the team he played in, the match positions he batted in…

It's clear he hasn't and won't.

Bro......

Shut up.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'd go with that because the side has 3 no.3s in positions 3-5. If Ponting opened you could have either Smith or Chappell in their favoured spot at 4.



It's clear he hasn't and won't.



Shut up.

You are free to not reply/put me on ignore, if me criticizing Tallon's batting is getting so much on your nerves

 

[the big bambino]

You are free to not reply/put me on ignore, if me criticizing Tallon's batting is getting so much on your nerves

Nothing like that at all. It's your tedious bashing of a point. Just say it once even though it isn't right. Why should I have to put anyone on ignore (when it disrupts the reading experience) when you can just stop nagging.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Nothing like that at all. It's your tedious bashing of a point. Just say it once even though it isn't right. Why should I have to put anyone on ignore (when it disrupts the reading experience) when you can just stop nagging.

I replied every time after a response from you. It wasn't like I was posting one-sidedly multiple comments on how Tallon's batting sucked.