Would Ponting make an Aussie all-time XI?

[Prince EWS]

Neither Smith or Bruce Mitchell or anyone else is in any league above the likes of Simpson, Lawry etc. Who here really feels that Smith is head and shoulders above his near contemporary Matthew Hayden? Therefore, England aside, no other team has a set of openers definitively above Australia's.

Me, absolutely. Clearly and massively better IMO.

 

[GIMH]

Hayden has often been excessively talked down on here but surely there’s no debate to be had about Smith V Him??? Smith miles better

 

[Shady Slim]

i would have ponting ahead of steve smith

punter's got that dawg in him imho

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Sehwag is as good as Hayden who is probably the best Aussie opening bat since WW1.

??

What about
Ponsford
Morris
Simpson
Lawry

 

[GIMH]

i would have ponting ahead of steve smith

punter got that dawg in him imho

I don’t know if it’s been done but for all the comparisons round here of late this is one that I find really interesting. When I think of Smith I primarily think of him not getting out in 2019. And scoring runs like nobody else I’ve ever seen. But Ponting was the epitome of leading from the front. That constant habit of him tonning up first game in a series. I tend to think he’s the best batsman I’ve ever watched.

 

[Shady Slim]

I don’t know if it’s been done but for all the comparisons round here of late this is one that I find really interesting. When I think of Smith I primarily think of him not getting out in 2019. And scoring runs like nobody else I’ve ever seen. But Ponting was the epitome of leading from the front. That constant habit of him tonning up first game in a series. I tend to think he’s the best batsman I’ve ever watched.

smith's ashes that year was obviously otherworldly and there's no possible way to detract from that definitely - and i can't help but feel that part of why i put ponting higher than smith is how much i ****ing hate watching smith do the thing others call batting - but ponting just has that air about him that you think when the chips are down there are few guys you'd rather have come in than him right?

 

[GIMH]

smith's ashes that year was obviously otherworldly and there's no possible way to detract from that definitely - and i can't help but feel that part of why i put ponting higher than smith is how much i ****ing hate watching smith do the thing others call batting - but ponting just has that air about him that you think when the chips are down there are few guys you'd rather have come in than him right?

I feel horrifically awkward at having read one of your posts and agreed to it in full

 

[Prince EWS]

I feel horrifically awkward at having read one of your posts and agreed to it in full

Yeah when I didn't vote for Root on a poll you told me I should know I was wrong because Shady agreed with me. Take your own advice on this one, mate.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I've always rated G. Smith up there above other openers I've seen but I think he's starting to get a bit overrated here

 

[Gob]

1 Trumper
2 Simpson
3 Bradman
4 Chappell
5 Border
6 Miller
7 Gilchrist
8 Davidson
9 Lindwall
10 Warne
11 McGrath

Ponting would probably make a second XI but Lillee and Hayden fans can cry harder about them not even making that.

I'm not going to consider Cummins or Smith until after they retire and I can let the dust settle, do some better analysis etc but I reckon they'll both end up in there. Cummins in particular would probably have Lindwall's spot even if he went wicketless for ten consecutive Tests from here and then retired in shame.

Only way I'd agree with Lillee not being in the Aust 2nd XI is if the person who selects the said side fell on his head as a kid.

 

[Gob]

I've always rated G. Smith up there above other openers I've seen but I think he's starting to get a bit overrated here

Massively

 

[Prince EWS]

Only way I'd agree with Lillee not being in the Aust 2nd XI is if the person who selects the said side fell on his head as a kid.

He might sneak in if I give him extra points for WSC. Gonna get knocked out again anyway once Cummins/Haze retire and I consider them though.

 

[Shady Slim]

He might sneak in if I give him extra points for WSC.

who are the three pacers you have there instead? spofforth, alderman and the cumster or something lol?

 

[Gob]

He might sneak in if I give him extra points for WSC. Gonna get knocked out again anyway once Cummins/Haze retire and I consider them though.

Look each man for him self etc and you've obviously done your research, standardized averages by giving greater weights to areas you think should be given more weight and got the results and now flaunting them around but fmd some of the opinions you have posted here like Lillee not being in Australia's second xi (didn't peter Siddle came ahead of him?) and Ponting not among the top 20 best bats of all time sounds absolutely ludicrous to me and I'm hundred percent sure for every single person here and if say Migara came up with that, he would have been absolutely laughed off.

Maybe you are just seeing things differently I don't know but they are just some weird opinions. No offence

 

[Fuller Pilch]

He might sneak in if I give him extra points for WSC. Gonna get knocked out again anyway once Cummins/Haze retire and I consider them though.

Hazlewood ahead of Lillee? What? Lillee is one of the top dozen quicks of all time.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If everyone had the same opinions things would be pretty boring

 

[Shady Slim]

If everyone had the same opinions things would be pretty boring

gob's right though that everyone would absolutely clown migara or like hb or whoever as a parochialist if they said the same thing

pews needs to **** or get off the pot though and tell us who he has ahead of DK before we can beclown him

 

[Prince EWS]

Look each man for him self etc and you've obviously done your research, standardized averages by giving greater weights to areas you think should be given more weight and got the results and now flaunting them around but fmd some of the opinions you have posted here like Lillee not being in Australia's second xi (didn't peter Siddle came ahead of him?) and Ponting not among the top 20 best bats of all time sounds absolutely ludicrous to me and I'm hundred percent sure for every single person here and if say Migara came up with that, he would have been absolutely laughed off.

Maybe you are just seeing things differently I don't know but they are just some weird opinions. No offence

When Migara comes up with weird **** you can usually see he's just biased towards countries he likes / biased against countries he doesn't. People take me more seriously than him because they can see I came with what I valued first, then tried to apply it historically through a lot of time and effort. People usually disagree anyway but I guess they think it might be a more interesting discussion than 'Murali was one of the best fielders in the 90s', 'Dhamasena was a revolutionary batsman because he picked the doosra' etc.

My method isn't perfect - I can see what it can't take into account or where it over- or under-rates certain performances and I make manual adjustments (you'll see my batting and bowling lists are quite different to what it actually spits out), but I think it's a good base.

Most of the criticism I get is for it valuing longevity too much, but that's just because I value longevity more than most of the forum. That's alright. The standardised averages themselves though usually get a good wrap when people look through the process.. at the very least most people seem to agree they usually give a more accurate picture than the scorebook averages, which was the point of it.

In terms of Lillee himself, I don't actually think he was worse than Siddle or my main man Matty Hoggard, but his average standardises to 28. When you play the equivalent of an 8-year Test career, with 63% of your games at home, in a bowling era, in conditions that generally favour you, and you still only average ~24, you're basically Jadeja without the batting. That don't impress me much.

I'm happy to say it probably punishes players a little too much for playing a disproportionate amount of games at home, and it also fails to take into account what he did in WSC which is IMO where a lot of his justified rating comes from. But I do think he was massively over-rated because he was the leader of a good Australian attack, had a marketable personality, muh swagger etc.

 

[Shady Slim]

When Migara comes up with weird **** you can usually see he's just biased towards countries he likes / biased against countries he doesn't. People take me more seriously than him because they can see I came with what I valued first, then tried to apply it historically through a lot of time and effort. People usually disagree anyway but I they think it might be a more interesting discussion than 'Murali was one of the best fielders in the 90s', 'Dhamasena was a revolutionary batsman because he picked the doosra' etc.

My method isn't perfect - I can see what it can't take into account or where it over- or under-rates certain performances and I make manual adjustments (you'll see my batting and bowling lists are quite different to what it actually spits out), but I think it's a good base.

Most of the criticism I get is for it valuing longevity too much, but that's just because I value longevity more than most of the forum. That's alright. The standardised averages themselves though usually get a good wrap when people look through the process.. at the very least most people seem to agree they give a more accurate picture than the scorebook averages, which was the point of it.

In terms of Lillee himself, I don't actually think he was worse than Siddle or my main man Matty Hoggard, but his average standardises to 28. When you play the equivalent of an 8-year Test career, with 63% of your games at home, in a bowling era, in conditions that generally favour you, and you still only average ~24, you're basically Jadeja without the batting. That don't impress me much.

I'm happy to say it probably punishes players a little too much for playing a disproportionate amount of games at home, and it also fails to take into account what he did in WSC which is IMO where a lot of his justified rating comes from. But I do think he was massively over-rated because he was the leader of a good Australian attack, had a marketable personality, muh swagger etc.

who are the three fast bowlers you have ahead of him in your second xi and why brother

 

[Prince EWS]

who are the three fast bowlers you have ahead of him in your second xi and why brother

1 Woodfull
2 Ponsford
3 Ponting
4 Harvey
5 Waugh
6 Noble
7 Healy
8 Johnson
9 Turner
10 Johnston
11 O'Reilly

Happy to include Lillee over Johnson or Johnston if we're gonna give him credit for WSC but they're all gonna get knocked out when Cummins and Haze retire anyway. Lindwall will move to Second XI for Cummins and Haze will replace the other one.