Pup Clarke
Cricketer Of The Year
When have the likes of Sylvester Joseph, Runako Morton and Devon Smith done much better?. All three hardly have good test match records.
Because I'm Scottish and I take great pride in that. I don't remember ever stating anywhere that I'm an English cricket fan. I keep track of their results and watch their matches with close interest but I ain't a fan. It doesn't bother me whether they win or lose.Why you not an English fan?
And you've always seemed to be in the past.
I could but I ain't. Scotland do have a cricket team yeh know.Anyway - you can be a Scot and still support England in cricket.
Oh, there's no doubt West Indies are the better team overall. I don't think anyone is disputing that. On pitches that aren't raging turners, they are infinitely better than Bangladesh. All I - and everyone else who argued it AFAIK - suggested was that that'd be in for a tough contest on a turner in Bangladesh.If anyone seriously thinks Bangladesh would have been capable of fighting back from the position WI were in an hour or so before Close yesterday they're outta their mind.
As long as we still win tomorrow, I'll be pleased it happened.
I'll give you Chanderpaul. Sarwan isn't playing though and hence doesn't fit into "the current West Indies team" which is performing ever so direly. Ramdin, Ganga and Bravo are very exaggerated there IMO. Ramdin and Bravo certainly have all the tools to be good players of spin - and when the ball isn't spinning much, they look very accomplished against it. However, their shot selection when the ball actually is turning leaves a lot to be desired, and I can see Rafique firing one past Ramdin's attempted sweep straight into the pads for an lbw and Haque turning one past Bravo's attempted midwicket flick from over the wicket to bowl him off stump as well.This argument about the WI not playing spin well is kinda faulty. Sarwan, Chanderpaul, Ramdin, Bravo and Ganga if he bats long enough are all capable against spin bowling.
The original thread-starter seemed to me to be claiming a bit more than you and those who've expressed the same sentiments as you have done.Oh, there's no doubt West Indies are the better team overall. I don't think anyone is disputing that. On pitches that aren't raging turners, they are infinitely better than Bangladesh. All I - and everyone else who argued it AFAIK - suggested was that that'd be in for a tough contest on a turner in Bangladesh.
Bangladesh have little going for them apart from a lot of well wishers and optimists.
I'd suggest Mortaza and Rafique would find themselves playing in other test teams too.Nah, thats not a bad thing. What I meant was that they have a lot of people that wish them well and like to see them do well and like to put a rosy spin on events but have virtually zero players of any calibre.
*cue list of below average Test players*
Before the England tour in 2005 people were talking up Mortaza and saying the exact same thing. ie Watch what he can do with a few more matches and more experience.I'd suggest Mortaza and Rafique would find themselves playing in other test teams too.
Rafique would perhaps only make the West Indies and South African teams (although IMO he'd make others too). His numbers would have made far better reading if circumstances were different.
Mortaza, on the other hand, has turned into a very good seamer whom I'd certainly consider to be a cut above some of the Indians, for instance. Like Rafique, his numbers are still a bit rubbish, but I suspect they'll start to reflect his quality when he's had a few more matches.
A short list, but not neccessarily below average.
I'm not peddling the old 'he'll come good with experience' line, it no longer applies.Before the England tour in 2005 people were talking up Mortaza and saying the exact same thing. ie Watch what he can do with a few more matches and more experience.
Since then his bowling average has increased Not exactly what was planned.
Well, he's a fingerspinner... and in being a fingerspinner he's not got much chance of being more than fairly ordinary.Rafique is a pretty ordinary cricketer. He seems porfessional enough but there isnt really anything too threatening with the bat or ball at Test level.
Compared to Ashley Giles and Nicky Boje he certainly is, and they are only two examples or guys who have had decent careers yet been lesser bowlers than Rafique.But I'd say of fingerspinners he's one of the better of recent years.
Rafique also very rarely had the chance to bowl at tail-enders, and didn't see too many 5th days pitches either.Compared to Ashley Giles and Nicky Boje he certainly is, and they are only two examples or guys who have had decent careers yet been lesser bowlers than Rafique.