Who will win these battles

[Sliferxxxx]

Irrelevant of the batting, the way Bumrah bowled that series, not many batsmen would have been able to handle him tbh

It is relevant. Had he been playing a proper WI batting lineup from say even the 90s he's not averaging 9 and striking at 20 odd.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He's trolling nothing more nothing less.

Was initially, but seriously don't rate Smith vs Bumrah that high or think Head can replicate this performance given 100 more chances (despite averaging 23 odd h2h).

 

[subshakerz]

Was initially, but seriously don't rate Smith vs Bumrah that high or think Head can replicate this performance given 100 more chances (despite averaging 23 odd h2h).

I mean, he kinda did in the WC final.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Was initially, but seriously don't rate Smith vs Bumrah that high or think Head can replicate this performance given 100 more chances (despite averaging 23 odd h2h).

The fact remains, players like Root have gotten the better of Bumrah, therefore someone like Viv possibly could as well. No doubt in my mind Viv would likely average 42-45 at a minimum. Which isn't spectacular but isn't poor either. And over a career head to head, I'd expect each to win their own set of battles.

 

[capt_Luffy]

The fact remains, players like Root have gotten the better of Bumrah, therefore someone like Viv possibly could as well. No doubt in my mind Viv would likely average 42-45 at a minimum. Which isn't spectacular but isn't poor either. And over a career head to head, I'd expect each to win their own set of battles.

That's really the part I have problem with. Roots record to him was good in 2021, in India last year it was soft. I think will learn Root, probs. Nothing much. You can say you think Viv will win, I have nothing against it. But I absolutely can't see it being a "guarantee" or "no doubt in mind" scenario really.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I mean, he kinda did in the WC final.

1. It was ODIs
2. And it still wasn't he hit Bumrah specifically out.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The fact remains, players like Root have gotten the better of Bumrah, therefore someone like Viv possibly could as well. No doubt in my mind Viv would likely average 42-45 at a minimum.

What's the logic though. Azhar Mahmood averaged something huge vs Donald but Tendulkar/Lara only managed an average in the 30s. Random **** happens all the time in such cricket stats. To say any of these fantasy matchups outcomes would be guaranteed is a stretch.

 

[Johan]

only two things are guaranteed in life, The IRS and the Grim Reaper.

 

[capt_Luffy]

only two things are guaranteed in life, The IRS and the Grim Reaper.

- B Franklin

 

[Sliferxxxx]

That's really the part I have problem with. Roots record to him was good in 2021, in India last year it was soft. I think will learn Root, probs. Nothing much. You can say you think Viv will win, I have nothing against it. But I absolutely can't see it being a "guarantee" or "no doubt in mind" scenario really.

I said over their careers they'd each have their wins but Viv isn't averaging under 40 vs Bumrah. Using Imran as an example, if i recall Viv faced him over 4 series 2 home and 2 away. Viv utterly failed in '77 at home and '86 away. But he had a great series in '80 away and '88 at home when he was well past his best. I could see managing the same vs Jasprit. And I'm a huge Jasprit fan fwiw.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

What's the logic though. Azhar Mahmood averaged something huge vs Donald but Tendulkar/Lara only managed an average in the 30s. Random **** happens all the time in such cricket stats. To say any of these fantasy matchups outcomes would be guaranteed is a stretch.

It's not logic it's an educated well informed guess. Viv averaged 40+ over his career vs every great pace bowler he faced: Lillee, Hadlee, Imran, Peak Botham and Wasim. What logic are you using to say he wouldn't average 40+??

 

[capt_Luffy]

I said over their careers they'd each have their wins but Viv isn't averaging under 40 vs Bumrah. Using Imran as an example, if i recall Viv faced him over 4 series 2 home and 2 away. Viv utterly failed in '77 at home and '86 away. But he had a great series in '80 away and '88 at home when he was well past his best. I could see managing the same vs Jasprit. And I'm a huge Jasprit fan fwiw.

And I said we can disagree on that really. He can average 50, heck might do something outrageous like 70 or 80. He can end up doing sub 30. Either way, there's absolutely no certainty in this.

 

[subshakerz]

1. It was ODIs
2. And it still wasn't he hit Bumrah specifically out.

He hit the entire attack. And it was a great knock regardless of if ODIs. Clearly you can't dismiss the BGT performance as a fluke.

 

[Johan]

He'll blast around Bumrah and then blast one by Siraj to long on.

 

[OverratedSanity]

What logic are you using to say he wouldn't average 40+??

I didn't even say what he would average

 

[subshakerz]

What's the logic though. Azhar Mahmood averaged something huge vs Donald but Tendulkar/Lara only managed an average in the 30s. Random **** happens all the time in such cricket stats. To say any of these fantasy matchups outcomes would be guaranteed is a stretch.

The problem is that Bumrah was being presented as unconquerable whereas there are clearly bats who have had good series against him. That doesn't mean Viv is definite but it does mean this confidence that it's almost definitely advantage Bumrah is unwarranted.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I didn't even say what he would average

Ok what do you think he'd average overall vs Jasprit??

 

[Sliferxxxx]

And I said we can disagree on that really. He can average 50, heck might do something outrageous like 70 or 80. He can end up doing sub 30. Either way, there's absolutely no certainty in this.

Well no, there's no certainty. But if I said Lara would average 50+ vs Jasprit, I'd be laughed off this forum and deservedly so. Why? Because Lara had issues with express great pace. Same logic I'm using with Viv.

 

[subshakerz]

Well no, there's no certainty. But if I said Lara would average 50+ vs Jasprit, I'd be laughed off this forum and deservedly so. Why? Because Lara had issues with express great pace. Same logic I'm using with Viv.

It's worthwhile mentioning that there hasn't been an argument about why exactly Bumrah has an advantage over Viv, whereas on the flip side I mentioned reflexes and crossbat shots as counters to Bumrah. Along with his record against his own era ATG pacers.

 

[Johan]

Jasprit is express?